A helpful tip for the atheists in your life

If you speak with many atheists, you will quickly see that they love to shout you down with their “evidence” not leaving room for a rebuttal and logical debate. If you were wondering why, check out this article. It says it all.

I find it amusing that God gave a clear description of people who reject Him for something else. He did this some 2,000 years ago before the height of the atheist movement. Just read what He says and then compare with the article from the Washington Post.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. (Romans 1:18-32)

19 comments on “A helpful tip for the atheists in your life

  1. Interesting that you mention “evidence”, when it’s believers who can’t actually provide any evidence that specifically proves their god, rather than any other god that’s ever been worshiped.

    And before you come back and ask me to provide evidence that your god doesn’t exist – I’ll provide that just after you provide evidence that the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, and the myriad of other gods worshiped by people over the years don’t exist.

    • There is plenty of evidence that points to a Creator, who has revealed Himself through the Bible, the person of Jesus Christ, and in history in general. The problem is, like most good atheists, you are a professional at ignoring the facts and spinning what does not fit into your worldview. The order of everything in the Universe is one proof that something intelligent created it all. Things in general, tend to move towards chaos, in the universe, in the world around us etc. Yet, even faced with this info, the atheists still hangs on to the long disproved hypothesis of Darwin that things are evolving toward order from chaos. God has given us the Holy Book, the Bible, 66 inspired books that fit together perfectly without one mistake, although written in 3 different languages (some claim 4) by over 40 different men from different millennia, different continents, different education levels etc. Then there is the proven prophecy written in the Bible. Not obscure things but details about individuals written long before those individuals were even born. God has intervened in this world on many occasions.

      Why would I ask you to prove that God does not exist? You cannot do it. The only proof is the proof that He does exists, we as people can choose to accept the evidence or like the ostrich, stick our heads in the sand and claim that we do not see the evidence so therefore we do not have to accept it.

  2. I just find it interesting that atheist spend their time fighting against a God whom they claim does not even exist 🙂

  3. I find it interesting that you don’t try to address any of my points 🙂

    Apart from just wanting people to understand what’s happening in the world, there’s really only one reason why atheists spend time doing this: because your beliefs in your god can affect me.

    How? Because politicans propose and support laws based on their superstitions, rather than being based on science. Because schools support activities that are biased in favour of fairy-stories. Because those same schools teach children that a myth is true and that it somehow has equal value with scientifically supported theories (I use the term in the scientific sense).

    Because schools based on yet other myths teach that women are like the property of men, and can be treated with absolutely no respect – as slaves.

    Religion should be put back in church, where it belongs, rather than being forced on people through government and schools. Keep your beliefs – no problem. But keep them to yourself. Do not try to force me (or my kids) to follow them.

    • I have addressed your points over and over again. You just refuse to accept reality (especially when it does not line up with your “world view”.

      Your belief in no God also affects me as well. Teach children that they come from animals then they will begin to act like them. Look at the sharp rise in school shootings since the 1960’s in the USA (when God was asked to leave the public school system). You have good, God loving parents who send their children to public schools only to have one of their classmates (who had no alternative view taught to them at home) come to school and think that it is okay to murder their classmates. (because there is no ultimate Judge on what is right and wrong, so they are taught).

      Women like property? The Bible is very clear that men and women are equal in the eyes of God. Please see God’s opinion instead of the practices of the nations because you seem to be confusing the 2 things.

      Religion should be put back in church, where it belongs, rather than being forced on people through government and schools. Keep your beliefs – no problem. But keep them to yourself. Do not try to force me (or my kids) to follow them.

      So secular humanism should not be taught in school either since it is a form of religion (a worldview like Christianity is a worldview)? It has a doctrine, Darwinian Evolution, an object of worship, mankind, temples (public schools) and promoters (you being one example). You prefer one worldview over another and you want yours to be the only one presented. Why is that? I know, because like all atheists, you cannot stand a challenging point of view.

      • Eric, you have not addressed my points at all.

        Children shooting other children is not confined to non-believers. God has not left the US school system if the Christians want him to be in it. Children and teachers can still pray in schools, as long as the religion supported by that prayer isn’t promoted by the school above other belief systems.

        And because some children know that there isn’t an ultimate judge, that doesn’t mean they abandon the morals that good parents should have taught them. Any more than children of believers think they can do anything – eg, kill their friends – and they can then just ask for forgiveness and god will forgive them.

        As for women being second class, what does the bible say about women keeping quiet in church?

        Your description of secular humanism doesn’t match with what it’s generally understood to mean: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism

        I know that believers have a hard time understanding that atheists don’t have a doctrine, nor an object of worship. We don’t have temples. We do have promoters in the sense that some people have thought about things for themselves and come to the conclusion that there is no evidence for any god. Living in the real world means that we rely on that real world. There is no evidence of any god, so why make one up?

        We don’t want our worldview presented over any other, because we don’t have a worldview. We have the real world. Believers want to promote their worldview and force us all to follow it, through religiously motivated laws. However, if there ever was real evidence for a god, then most atheists would be prepared to change their minds. Because we follow the evidence. There never has been evidence for any god, there’s only what men tell us about what they think of god. Why should I believe men talking about their ideas of a god, when it contradicts the evidence of the real world.

      • Prayer and Bible study can take place in schools as long as it is student led. The problem is, organizations like the ACLU attack anything Christian (they are not so strongly against the “religion of peace”) intimidating many teachers and administrators from promoting Judeo-Christian values during schools hours (although the Koran can be read). I have not seen many articles and news feeds about born again Christian children going to school and murdering their classmates. I have seen and read many cases of non born again students going to their classrooms or university campuses shooting up the place and taking innocent life. Forgiveness does not negate the consequences of one’s actions. God separates the two very clearly so please try not to lump them together.

        As for women being second class, what does the bible say about women keeping quiet in church?

        Once again, you are trying to contradict a Bible that you do not know very well. Have you studied the background to why Paul wrote what he wrote? Have you looked at the context? BTW, do you even know where that phrase is mentioned?

        Just a pointer, Paul also tells some men to be silent in the church. Please see I Corinthians 14:28.

        The passage that you are quoting from is I Corinthians 14 (there is another reference in I Timothy, which we can cover another time). Paul is addressing a specific problem in the Church of Corinth. If women can never speak in church then Paul would contradict what he just wrote in chapter 11 of the same letter. In chapter 11, he says that women can pray and prophesy in church if they do it correctly. Those who do not, are told to be silent. In chapter 11, you can see that the church in Corinth had many problems. One of the problems was order in the church service. It seems that some of the women were standing and teaching (talking) whenever they felt “led” to do so. Several would stand at once and begin “teaching” and chaos would reign. In order to fix this problem, Paul tells those women who were causing the problems to be silent. This is not a blanket command for all women in all churches. You see sir, it really helps to go to the source instead of regurgitating what you read on a website.

      • Just noticed I forgot the winking smiley after the line about women keeping quiet in church 😉

      • Eric, I have no contact with or specific interest in the ACLU, but I think it’s safe to say that the ACLU will support people who genuinely have their civil liberties threatened. Whether those people are Christian, Muslim, atheist, or anything else. That they more often have to support atheists (or other non-Christians) against what could be seen as a Christian viewpoint speaks more of the inherently privileged position that Christians enjoy (and have come to expect) in US society than anything else. And those same privileged Christians usually take great umbrage at having to actually follow the same laws as everyone else. That’s one reason why the ACLU has so much to do.

        I don’t know what sources you have for claiming that the ACLU is in any way pro-Muslim, but we both know you’re not being entirely honest with that claim.

        Sadly, we both read too many reports of children or students killing other children or students. Or anyone killing someone else. Trying to put the blame on atheists (or other non-Christians in general) is a cheap shot.

        The Christian god does equate forgiveness with consequences: when he forgives your sin, you completely escape the consequences of those sins. You will not be cast into the eternal fire to burn forever in a way that only a loving god could allow you to burn (ie, he never lets the fire actually consume you to end your torture – he magically makes sure that you stay alive and burning and in agony).

        As for the blanket command for all women to keep silent in church: You should explain that to all the churches where it is taught as such a blanket command. That was actually just a joke line that I forgot to mark 😉

        But I find it interesting to note that you spent so much effort explaining it. Makes me wonder why an all-powerful, all-singing, all-dancing, onmi-everything god couldn’t get his word written any clearer, so people would actually be able to understand it, without a lot of bending and twisting and references to other connected (or unconnected) bible verses. Whether or not they’re in context – and whether or not there is even an underlying, deeper meaning that only the truly, truly faithful will be able to understand.

        Would you say it’s because of it being translated? Wouldn’t he know that too? Couldn’t he fix that too? Couldn’t he actually write what he meant? Seriously, that’s the best your god could do? Maybe he should have got a Mac.

      • I just do not see any born again Christian kids murdering their classmates. I have seen non born again ones do it (Columbine being one example )

        A person who sleeps around before marriage and gets AIDS, can repent and be forgiven for his sins but he will still have to face the consequences of AIDS. You are confusing the two things. A person who murders another and then repents, will be forgiven but must pay the price (according to the Bible, with his own life). There is a huge difference between forgiveness of sins and consequences.

        What is written in the Bible is very clearly written, unfortunately, people are lazy and do not want to put forth any effort or they are ignorant on purpose of what is written because they do not want to accept the facts that destroy their “worldviews”.

        The Greek language (koine, the simple Greek of the New T.) is one of the most precise languages that we have. God chose one of the easiest languages to understand to transmit His message. The preciseness of the language makes it easier to translate into other languages. So which is it, are you in the lazy group, or the one ignorant on purpose?

  4. You’re still trying to win points by making it look like only non-Christian students kill people. That’s pretty insensitive in light of what just happened at the Christian college in California. But I guess you’ll claim that the shooter was a non-Christian, so that’s all right then.

    Many people sleep around before marriage – and many sleep around after marriage. Christians included. A very small percentage of them get AIDS – Christian and non-Christian. It’s an irrelevant point – although it fits in with your prejudices (judging by what I read elsewhere on this site), so I guess that it’s important to you.

    The bible teaches forgiveness if you repent. God (who is the only judge who should count for a Christian) gives you a free pass.

    I will admit that I gave up studying the bible around 25 years ago, when I realised it wasn’t connected to the real world. Since then, I’ve heard many people try to make sense of it by saying how simple the message is, etc, etc – if only you’re prepared to believe in the first place. And I’ve tried to educate myself on what really matters and how things really work (without being a professional scientist). Thankfully, I have a working brain that can follow logic. That’s why I don’t consider the bible to be a source of anything except amusement and contradiction – as anyone who googles “contradictions in the bible” will find. I just did and got “about 1,040,000 results”. Some of them try to refute the contradictions, twisting themselves through all sorts of mental gymnastics to explain away what we can plainly read (however you translate it). It would be amusing if it wasn’t so sad. As I asked before, why couldn’t an all-powerful, all-singing, all-dancing, omni-everything god make his message clear to us today?

    Tell me Eric, why do you believe in the bible?

    • I will answer this one first and then move on to the other points.

      First of all, let me make a few things clear. I did not grow up in a home where the Bible was taught. I was 18 before I ever broke the covers of a Bible. My family went to church from time to time, but it was more like a country club for sinners instead of an actual church. I have not lived a sheltered life, only being around born again Christians, going to Christian schools etc. I lived like a pagan as a teen because that is what I was and that is what all my friends did. We loved to party, drink, chase girls etc. I was a porn addict by the time I was 11 years old (when I was 10, my 19 year old brother introduced me to Penthouse). I was also an athlete (in fact sports were my life, that was my god). When I was 18, a freshman in college, I met a group of born again Christians and I was impressed with the way that they lived their lives. I knew something was different about them but I did not know what. I was introduced to Bible study. At first, being a proud pagan, I went to Bible study to show the teacher how much she did not know (even though I knew nothing myself). I was the one who wanted to stump the teacher with questions she had never heard before. I was amazed at her attitude in dealing with me. As I continued to study the Bible, I began to see how depraved I was and how holy Jesus Christ is. I wanted to be able to live like the other born again Christians around me but I could not. I tried but failed. I learned what sin is, what repentance is, what being born again means etc. I dedicated my life to Jesus Christ and became a new person. I received the ability to say NO to pornography for the first time in 8 years. I was able to stop binging on alcohol. I was no longer interested in chasing girls (I learned that God would provide the perfect mate at the right time). I saw a radical transformation in my character and attitude. Like the Bible teaches, I became a new creation. I was born again. Now, I did not know about the inerrancy of the Bible then or the fulfilled prophecies that prove that the Bible is true. I learned these things over time. I also learned that God promises to transform a person’s life in a radical through the new birth. I had experienced it before I totally understood it all. I started to connect the dots (what the Bible teaches and what happens in reality). I saw that everything that God claims in the Bible happens. So, my first case for believing in the Bible is that is transformed my life. I had tried to stop looking at porn and failed miserably over and over. I had tried to stop binge drinking and failed. I had even tried to stop chasing girls (and failed at that too). God made it all happen. I cannot deny that. The people I hung out with before my conversion are also a testament to the fact that there has been a radical transformation in me. In the past 13 years, I have seen countless lives transformed the same way through the power of the Word of God. Drug runners and addicts who are clean and sober, raising a family, and contributing positively to society. They all claim the same thing, “I tried to stop on my own and could not do it. God caused this to happen when I was born again”. I work with many young men who have been addicts to porn for years and they are finally having victory (not that they did not try before). The next proof for the truth of the Bible is fulfilled prophecy. There are about 300 Old T. prophecies that predict the First coming of the Messiah (Jesus Christ). The birth and life of Christ fulfilled all 300 of them. Many of them were not under His ability to do. For example, His birth parents and His birth location were not under His control (the fact that He would be born to a virgin, living in Israel, in Bethlehem). He also had to be a male and in the lineage of King David. The fact that One man fulfilled all of these prophecies is amazing. The probability of one person being born in the right place to the right parents and doing what He did on this earth is numerically impossible to calculate. Things that happened to Him on the cross (the cross itself is fulfilled prophecy) which were not under His control, fulfill Psalm 22 in detail (written well before Jesus’ birth, when no one in Israel knew anything about crucifixion, Psalm 22 is like an eyewitness standing next to the trial and crucifixion, explaining what was happening). The 3rd proof is the Nation of Israel. As long as they exist as a people, God exists. He says in His Word that once they cease from existing as a people, He will cease to exist. They have been around since Abraham, even though many different empires have tried to destroy them. So, to sum it up, there is textual proof (in the Bible), prophetical proof, life transformation proof, and historical proof. There is a lot of proof for the Bible and God’s existence. Personally, I do not know why one would choose to be an atheists (if he knows all the info that I just presented) but I sure you have your reasons.

      Did you grow up in a fundamental family? (just curious)

      You found proof on the internet that the Bible has errors? Well, since it is on the internet then it must be true. I guess I had better renounce my faith and become an atheists 😉

      Please see these articles.

      I would like to point out that One Goh is a former student who was expelled (why?). Secondly, I have personal friends (and relatives) who went to Christian colleges and are far from born again Christians. Again, the number of school shooters who are not born again Christians far outweighs the number of born again Christians who have murdered their classmates (zero as to date).

      Genuine Christians do not sleep around before marriage and are not unfaithful in marriage. That would be people who do not know God, atheists if you will. God does not give anyone a free pass. Sin was punished in Christ (the eternal punishment). There are temporal consequences here and now for sin. David suffered the temporal consequences of his sin (his son died, his children rebelled against him etc). He is just one example. Samson is another, Abraham and Sarah, Adam and Eve etc. If you do not see that then you are either blind or being ignorant on purpose. Have sex outside of marriage, yes, you can be forgiven, but be prepared to suffer the temporal consequences. Murder someone and be prepared to face the temporal consequences. The eternal will be forgiven if you repent and turn away from your sin but that does not negate the temporal consequences. You really need to study the Bible more if you want to argue against it.

      • I’ll try to get back to you soon (after Easter – I have a life somewhere out there :-)). I just wanted to say that you forgot to mention that you used to worship Satan and BBQ babies when you were a binge-drinking, girl-chasing, party animal. You pretty much got all the rest of the Christian’s cliche ideas of what an atheist’s life is like. Wrong ideas, but you got them anyway.

        OK, one more comment: you mention that Jesus fulfilled the prophecy that the messiah had to be in the lineage of King David. But Mary’s lineage is not clear. And Joseph was only Jesus’ father because he was Mary’s husband. He was not Jesus’ actual father – unless you disagree with the bit about the holy spirit being Jesus’ actual father (like the bible says it was). Or maybe you say that under the law Joseph was Jesus’ father – in other words, the law is more important than the facts. So Jesus being in the lineage of David is only true if you want it to be (ie, if you want to believe that Mary herself was in the line of Joseph) or if you believe that the law is more important than the facts – rather than it being true because it’s true.

      • Please see this as the answer to Jesus’ lineage.

        Mary and Joseph both come from the lineage of David.

        When I shared my testimony, I shared MY testimony as I lived it. I was not sharing some fictional atheist’s life.

        Have a happy Resurrection Day. We celebrate a week from now over here in Eastern Europe. But, I actually celebrate it every day by the new lifestyle that I live.

      • Your explanation for Mary’s lineage is a rather long-winded way of saying that you don’t really know (and that no-one really knows), but you want to believe she’s from David’s line, so that’s that. Pretty much what others on the ‘net say about the subject (including Christan sites that try to make sense of the nonsense). Bottom line is that Luke could have been a lot less ambiguous in his writing, especially if he was being inspired by a god – that would have helped. It’s almost as if he wasn’t being helped along by the god he was supposed to be writing about.

        As for your no-true-scotsman appeals regarding Christians sleeping around: that’s what all believers say when confronted with how Christians behave in the real world. True Christians are true Christians until they’re not. But then they can ask god for forgiveness and start all over again as true Christians.

        Enjoy Easter 🙂

      • So we are back to square one. Basically, you want someone to cook your food, serve it to you, chew it up for you, and then have you swallow it. I know that sounds gross but that is basically what you are asking for in the Bible. Jesus also spoke in parables because He wanted those who heard to ask Him what He meant. No one understood but it was only the disciples who humbled themselves and came to Him and asked for explanations. The rest of the hearers were to proud to admit that they did not understand and they just walked away, not really understanding anything. So this attitude that you have is nothing new. God has spoken and He is ready and willing to reveal what He has said to those who want to put forth a little effort.

        1 Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk ), that you excel still more. 2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification ; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality ; 4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; (I Thessalonians 4)

        Those who live in sexual sin do not know God. There is no maybe mentioned here.

  5. Pingback: What do you see? Romans 1:18-32 « Anointed Place Ministries

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