One of the most widely misquoted verses from the Bible will be the topic of this article, a lesson that I am going to teach to my staff this Wednesday as we continue digging down deep in to the Sermon on the Mount. Last week we covered the overview of Matthew 7.
Most church goers can quote parts of, if not all of John 3:16 yet it seems to me that every man on the street knows Matthew 7:1 by heart. They have no clue who is speaking and what the subject matter is, but they will be quick to quote Matthew 7:1, and way out of context, not to mention, not understanding what they are saying (meaning wise). As you can see from the title of the article, when Jesus says “do not judge” He does not mean that we cannot confront sin. How do we know this, you may ask? The rule of context is, context rules. Obviously Jesus does not mean that we cannot call a sin a sin or a sinner a sinner because a few verses later, He calls some people dogs and some pigs. He is making a judgment and telling us to do the same. He confronts sin and tells us to do the same.
This teaching is very important because we live in an age of relativism. Each person is taught that his truth is truth for him, even if it is not truth for you and that you have no right to judge another person’s actions, ideas, attitudes etc., no matter how absurd they may be. That is not what Jesus had in mind when He said “do not judge others”. Let’s discover what He actually had in mind when He said, “do not judge others.”.
I. When to confront (judge) others
Matthew 7:1 has a context and the context tells us when we can confront others. Please read Matthew 7:1-6. According to the context, you are able to confront the sin of others, first, when you have examined yourself and discovered that you are not committing the same sin that you are confronting the person about. A man who is addicted to porn is not going to be a good candidate to confront another man who is living with his girlfriend or cheating on his wife. Secondly, I can confront sin when I am not practicing a habitual sin in my own life. Thirdly, I can confront when I am doing it for the good of the person stuck in open sin. I must do it because I care about him or her and want that person to experience the freedom that Jesus offers to those who follow Him. If I am not doing it to help, to build the person up then according to Jesus, I should not be doing it. Finally, when I confront others, I must do it according to the standard set out clearly in the Word of God. I do not confront based on what I think, feel, or believe. I must confront based on God’s standards. Another aspect would be having a clear action, word, or attitude instead of assuming or judging the intentions, which we do not know. Confronting someone for looking at porn or having sex outside of marriage is not being judgmental because the Word of God calls looking at porn a sin as well as sex outside of marriage. In John 8:15-16, Jesus tells us not to judge according to the flesh (our own standards) but instead, to judge according to God’s standards because that is what He does. When Jesus says, “do not judge” according to the context, “incorrectly” is implied. There is a proper way to confront and then there is a wrong way. I would like to examine some other Scriptures, cross references, to see what else we can learn on the subject of when to confront sin.
- Acts 4:19 – when someone asks you to do something contrary to the Word of God, that person must be confronted, with love and respect.
- Acts 13:44-47 – when people openly contradict the Word of God.
- I Corinthians 10:15 – here, we are encouraged to discern if what people are teaching from the Word is accurate or not. The same word that Jesus used in Matthew 7:1 is used here by Paul.
- James 4:6-11 – when a person is supposedly a brother in Christ yet is full of pride, a brother in Christ is double-minded (double spirited, one foot with the Lord and one with the world, a person trying to be a carnal Christian). Also, when one believer is speaking against another believer and you hear it, you are obligated to confront for the good of both, the one sinning and the one being sinned against.
- I Corinthians 5 – when a believer is openly living in sin and everyone knows about it. When a believer is unrepentant about open sin.
When you confront, you must do so with the Word of God, not to attack the person but, instead, to share the Truth and let the Word do Its work. Hebrews 4:12 tells us what the Word is able to do.
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
God’s Word is what does the judging. Our job is to present the Truth to the person living in sin and let the Word of God work. The question that arises is, when can I not confront others? God’s Word gives us the answer.
II. When not to confront others
According to Christ in the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 7, we cannot judge or confront others about a certain sin when we are practicing the same sin. Paul further explains this truth to a Jewish audience in Romans 2:1-6. After Paul’s explanation in Romans 1 about those who have rejected God, you could almost hear the Jewish audience screaming, “preach it brother, those dirty pagans need to heart it“. Paul hears it too and then turns to them and says, in essence, “why are you cheering for their judgment? You practice the same things and it is worse for you because you have the Law and know that what you are doing is wrong, unlike the ignorant pagans.” Another reason for not being able to confront is if my motives are wrong. If I am confronting the person in order to tear him down and make myself look better, then I cannot do it. If I do, I will end up judging incorrectly, like Christ tells us not to do. Luke gives us some insight that Matthew does not.
37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged ; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned ; pardon, and you will be pardoned. (Luke 6)
If you are confronting the person to condemn him or her then you are doing it for the wrong reasons. In fact, you do not have the right to condemn another person, that is God’s job. You are allowed to confront them with God’s Word and warn of the condemnation but not actually condemn. If you confront to condemn then you end up being just as wrong as the person who is practicing sin openly. Finally, Jesus does not allow us to confront if we are confronting based on our own standards instead of the standards laid out in the Word of God. If there is no clear breaking of God’s Law then I do not need to confront. I cannot confront a person’s motives or intentions. What are the results of confronting sin? Are they all negative or can there be positive ones too?
III. The results of confronting others the right way
Jesus gives us two examples of results in Matthew 7:1-6. The first result is that you are able to take the plank out of your own eye (you are constantly examining your own life) and you also help your brother remove the sin from his own life. Both of us benefit and our walks with the Lord are improved. We help each other the way that God intended. The other reaction could be a negative one. In chapter 5, Jesus lets us know that we will be persecuted for living according to His righteousness. In chapter 7, He says that those who are confronted and do not receive God’s discipline via confrontation, they are dogs and swine who will turn on you and try to tear you to pieces. Another result would be that the person whom you confront actually calls you out for doing it the wrong way. How are you going to respond? Will you receive that confrontation and rebuke or will you turn on the one who rebuked you? In John 7, Jesus was persecuted by the people whom He confronted. In Acts 4, the apostles were persecuted by the ones whom they confronted. In Acts 13, people who refuse to receive the rebuking in the form of confrontation end up marking themselves for condemnation because they reject the Gospel. In I Corinthians 5, the person who is confronted comes to his senses, repents, and comes back into fellowship with the rest of the church. If the brother living in open sin is not confronted, his sin will spread to everyone else and all will suffer from it. Another result would be that he begins to persecute you by spreading rumors about you to others because you confronted him. In I Corinthians 10:15, when people’s messages are verified in the light of the Word of God, false prophets will be marked and people will be less likely to be led astray by them. Finally, in James, those who are confronted will get to experience the grace of God by humbling themselves, drawing near to God, and submitting to His working in their lives.
As you can see, Jesus does not tell us not to judge or confront sin. He does tell us to do it the right way and explains how in His Word. I hope that you have noticed that indifference to the sin’s of others is not an option. Not confronting sin and confronting it the wrong way are both wrong because in both cases, you leave the person negatively impacting either by your direct actions or sin’s destructive consequences. As believers, God has called us to confront sin, in our own lives and in the lives of others, for our own good and for the good of others. May God bless you as you continue to apply His Word to your life and learn to walk with Him moment by moment, day by day.
Erik and Elena Brewer's Weblog 
How many religions are there? How many different ways are there? TO YOU, only one. To others, only one. Their Way. Your way. No way is the right way, and yet no way is the wrong way. We can only come to know God, Jesus – through our own way. Our own trials, mistakes, love, sins – That is why God made us the way we are, with free will. Every religion has a piece of the puzzle. I know, you’ll tell me this is wrong, because you will say that Jesus is the only way. I know I know … but that’s true for you.
While I understand what you are talking about above in regards to judging others, I don’t neceassarily think that it’s the right way.
My boyfriend and I were kicked out of our church, where we met, that we have been members of for a very long time because we are living together and are not “Legally” married. While we are truly already married by Heart, a peice of paper matters none to us when God is the center of our relationship, and always has been.
We were removed from a church, yes I will repeat myself, removed. We are good, loving, heart working people who love Jesus and what he stood/stands for. We see things through different eyes, as a matter of fact, doesn’t everyone? I don’t believe we will be punished, nor do I believe I need to apologize to my church or to God for loving someone with all of my heart, mind and soul that I met through him. I don’t feel I need to apologize for being a loyal and devoted person so full of Love and Joy that could only come from one source.
If there is a God who would send me to a Hell for these reasons, then I would want no part of that God, Thankfully I know better than that and my relationship with God is personal, without the need of any church building or its people to judge me according to their own beliefs and standards.
The last commandment that Jesus gave, was to love one another. And to tell me that I am not good enough to be a part of a “church” that I have loved and given to… is not only sickening but not the way of Jesus. This has sent the church into a spiral, for those that have loved us and those that were finding their way into the church, are now walking away from it. Why? Well, I think that’s quite obvious.
No building is needed to know God. No man is needed to know God on a peronsal level.
No need to respond with your pointing fingers and bible versus, for I already know that our beliefs are different. You can be right in your eyes, and thats ok. I will still continue to read and respect you and your choices.
It is obvious that you have been influenced by the absurd teaching of relativism simply by what you wrote. Can two conflicting ideas be correct? Is that logically possible? How can two conflicting religions both lead to God?
Are you a follower of Jesus Christ? Is it wrong for society to judge a murderer? Can society judge a rapist, or should we just accept what they have done and move on? I guess the question is, are we able to judge the actions of others or not? Or, are we allowed to judge some actions but not others? Where do you draw the line? Who decides where the line is to be drawn?
If your way to God is through murdering unborn babies, (in your own words, the only way to God is our way) does that make it right? Again, where do you draw the line? Who draws the line? Don’t you think that God should be the One to explain how we come to Him, since it is we who are attaining to reach Him?
The reason that I am asking these questions is that I do not believe you have processed your conclusions. You seem to have borrowed a little from secular humanism and religion and made your own. What is the result of everyone doing what is right in their own eyes? Have you ever taken that out to its end? Basically, that is what you are saying when you say, each person makes his own way to God. It’s all relevant to you, and ultimately, it’s all about you and you just attach God as an afterthought.
If God is the center of your relationship, why not make a Covenant before God and before witnesses that you will stay together until death do you part? That is what “marriage” is, a covenant between two people before God and witnesses. It is way more than “just a piece of paper” as you claim. That is just an excuse for a deeper issue that you do not want to address. You and your live in are living in open sin and you should have been confronted, so that you see the error of your ways and turn away from your sin and turn to God. Please do not talk about your relationship with God and love for Him when you directly oppose Him and His teaching.
So, if two men are loyal and devoted to each other and decide to have a homosexual relationship, is that okay? Does it even matter what God has already shared on the subject? What if a man and an 11 year old girl are loyal and devoted to each other, should they be allowed to have a heterosexual relationship? Does it matter what God has to say about that? Again, I am not sure that you have thought out your arguments to their logical conclusion. You are directly contradicting the God whom you say you love. I pray that you will humble yourself and flee from evil to submit to God.
If you actually read the article, you would have seen that we are not to judge you or confront you according to our standards, we do it according to God’s as found in His Word. Also, I believe that the judicial system has every right to judge you if you break the law so, actually, people do have a right to judge you.
Do you even know what the word “love” means? How do we love? What does that look like? Does it mean accept everything, even when it is wrong? Do I love one person at the determent of another? Does love mean never confronting a person’s destructive behavior? Again, I am not sure you have thought your statements out logically.
How do you think a person gets to know God?
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JTT,
Just remember that the Bible never mentions the word homosexual or the word homosexuality. Never. Not once in the original Greek Septuagint New Testament or the Masoretic Hebrew Old Testament. Erik knows this. We’ve been over this before. The only time same-sex (and opposite sex) copulation are mentioned as an abomination is during pagan worship. In the Old Testament it’s during the worship of Molech and the Canaanite gods Baal, El, and Asherah. In the New Testament it’s the worship of the Greek pagan god Cybele. Paul could have mentioned homosexuals in the 25 words common in his time, but he never does. Jesus never mentions the Greek or Aramaic equivalent words.
Homosexuality is just not an issue in the Bible. Erik may want to believe it is, but wanting doesn’t make it true. The facts are clear.
Knowing God is knowing what the Bible really tells us.
God does explain how to come to him. He says to seek him with all of your heart, soul and mind. Correct? So, let’s imagine the man who has murdered another fellow human being. Truly the death of the person murdered’s life is not over. His physical life in this moment is over, but that person is eternal, and so therefor his death is just a one life down in the “game”. It matters none. BUT, the man who murdered him is left here on the earth, to look into the eyes of the people he has hurt. He is left here to wallow in his guilt and shame… this is enough to make one drop to their needs and cry out for mercy from God. THIS, is finding God in their own way. THIS is seeking God with all your heart mind and soul. THIS is how God will show the man what life, love and forgiveness are all about.
We find God in our own way, by experiencing life, through sin, through pain, through love, through loss, through forgiveness.
We don’t find God by sitting in a church and another human being TELLLING us HOW to find God. THAT is what is Absurd!
So, I’m guessing that you believe every word in the bible correct? I’m guessing you believe the bible is God Breathed? ….. by written by hand by FLAWED human beings? And you’re ok with that? Why? Because you have something called FAITH? Why do we need a BOOK written by MAN to tell us what we can find ourselves? Makes no sense to me … OH WAIT!!! I know! Pick me!!!
So that man would have POWER over Man!
If you truly Seek God and KNOW GOD, you know what is sinful and what is not.. and loving another human being is not a sinful act. THAT IS YOUR BELIEF.
Get what I’m saying? YOUR BELIEF. (How can I underline the word belief?)
Let’s look the definitionf of belief
Belief – a feeling of being sure that someone or something exists or that something is true
: a feeling that something is good, right, or valuable
: a feeling of trust in the worth or ability of someone
: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
Another words, this is a FEELING you have because of how you have been raised/programmed, and what you have CHOSEN to feel. It’s ok, do not fret … most people end up this way (I was one of them). UNTIL I woke up. UNTIL I was on my floor was night about to commit suicide and I cried out to God to show himself, to help me. I SEEKED HIM WITH ALL OF MY HEART and boy did he find me!!!!
He flipped my world upseid down and showed me what truth really is and I can promise you that your bible, yes while its a great guide, it has been twisted, turned, misconstrued and misinterpretted over and over again.. and GOD is waking people up to that truth,
Sadly, its the bible pushers who will be the last to wake up, because they are so blinded by their “Faith”.
As for Homosexuality.. yep grew up thinking this was a terrible thing, Was even made to feel homophobic! Sad.. but true. The truth of the matter is, we have no sex, our bodies do.. but we do not.. and WE ARE NOT OUR BODIES. Our bodies are just a car we ride in.
Homosexuality becomes a problem when the “world” makes it bad… men, human men/women view it as a sexual dirty thing (I mean thats what our world is made up of..porn, sex ads, … selling cheeseburgers while a sexy woman rides a rodeo bull.This is how we are brainwashed..) IF we could stop looking at the dirty and see it for what it is.. LOVE!! Two people who love and care for one another. TWO SEXLESS SOULS loving one another!
….and you ask me if I know what the world love means, as if I don’t know and you do. Truthfully.. none of us human beings can actually grasp the real meaning of love because it is beyond our comprehension.
But I would say it has something to do with God.
LOVING SO UNCONDITIONALLY that NO MATTER WHAT WE DO, we are LOVED, purely, rawly and always forgiving BECAUSE WE WERE CREATED TO SIN.
When I love, I love selflessly. Putting all of my own needs and desires aside to give, to share.
Your God of discipline and sending to Hell is what is absurd. Its actually quite humorous.
I was sittnig with a group of “christians” the other day and I asked a man .. if you hardly knew me or even if you knew me well, and you saw me tell my son that if he didn’t do exactly as I told him to do, and if he didn’t believe in me and my words that I would send him to his room forever and ever, no food, no air conditioning, no heat, no toilet.. I would make sure that there were bugs, and bees and spiders just so that he would suffer forever and ever and ever and ever.. what would you think of me? and a guy at the next table over heard me and he yelled out “WHO THE HECK would do something like that!?” ….
“Well” …I said “the Christian God of course.”
….. makes no sense does it?
Hell is a state of mind and is a choice we make. God will not judge anyone and point them in the direction of eternal suffering. If that is the case, than this God is not a God of love.
There is no “place” called hell. this again was made up by man to scare people. TO control them. TO make them ACT out of fear.. but sadly this has caused MANY more problems than the good they thought it would cause. God wil fix this and he is.. by waking people up to the truth. Your religion will die out.
I’d bet my life on it.
What a misconception…
Yeah, right. God is LOVE.. Yet, Jesus says, the persons calling me LORD won’t have any share in MY KINGDOM.. Only the persons that did God’s Will will have a place.
The branch that does not bring good fruit is cut off and thrown outside to burn.
The salt losing its flavor and strenght is cast outside and people walk upon it with disdain.
Call this unconditional, again?
No Hell..? I think Christ talked openly about the reality of a Hell..
God does not say, “Do as I say or I punish you!” , God says, “I made you, I love you, do as I say to live and prosper, FOREVER.. Life and Death are set before you, chsoe life, and live..”
As for your idea of Human beings “sexless souls”, you are either very young or delusional. I can tell you that much, we are gendered in every aspects of our bodies and minds. Either male or female, to join as one in Marriage through sexual union. something anatomically impossible for tyo penises or two vaginas beside rubbing, mind you..
Thanks, Erik for your article, it is great. I am amazed at the constant flow of unbelievers commenting, though!
Did he? Did he openly talk about Hell? You might want to check that again. Unfortunately for you, like so many others.. you trust and believe the bible – the one that has been translated over and over again. Maybe It would be better if I use the word MIStranslated.
Jesus Christ used two different words that were mistranslated.” Hades” and “Gehenna”.
These make for a VERY BIG difference than in the kind of HELL-FIRE “christians” were taught to believe in. Sadly, they were taught to be AFRAID and to LIVE IN FEAR. This is what is delusional.
The English word “hell” translated in the King James Bible has its beginning meaning to “cover” or to “conceal”, and is found 23 times in the New Testament. 11 times the word hell was taken from the word “Hades”, and 12 times it was taken from the word “Gehenna”. Hopefully you are aware that Hades simply means the unseen state of the dead. “Unseen” is NOT in the sense of physical eyesight; it is rather in the sense of “imperceptible”. In other words, Hades it is NOT “perceived” by our human senses.
Descend means to descend in cosciousness, just the same as ascend means to ascend in consciousness, not to actually fly up. However you would not ever understand this until you are aware of yourself outside of your body. So, I’ll give you some slack until you wake from your slumber.
Male and Female bodies were made for reproductoin. (Notice I speak of BODIES) Just like animals, we were made to reproduce. It was MAN that decided to create the rules of marriage and what they believe marriage should be. I mean, lets go back to when Men married multiple women at one time (IN THE BIBLE!) …
Marriage is not about sexual union, marriage is about love.
Sex is about reproduction. Let’s not confuse the two.
But thank you for your compliment about me being either very young or delusional. I’ll take it. Although, I don’t see where trying to make someone feel bad about themselves is very mature either. But again thank you.
Again, I was taught and told and preached to my entire life…
But if you’re told that the sky is green and you can VERY CLEARLY see with your own eyes that it is blue… would you really believe that its green just because everyone else believes that and tells you that you should as well?
We only had one interaction, yet I am already unwilling to discuss any further with you, JTT.
“Although, I don’t see where trying to make someone feel bad about themselves is very mature either.”
You are the one coming here, looking down at Christian’s belief Bible Scriptures are the written Word of God, dissing Churches living by its teachings.
More in that vein of your blatant attempt of turning the table of shame to your advantage :
“However you would not ever understand this until you are aware of yourself outside of your body. So, I’ll give you some slack until you wake from your slumber.”
Oh, sorry My Lord, I have not yet reached your high level of awareness and enlightenment.. How condescending of you to educate me some!
Yet, I tell you, we are gendered beings, Not gender neutral as this sick political propaganda is forcing. if you don’t understand this human reality, I repeat, you are either very young, or delusional. Come back down to Earth with the rest of us, mere men and women..?
If you find being told offending, it is the whole purpose of humble fellowship with Christ you reject., Jesus, that you claim to follow, yet you make and live by your own set of rules for what is good and what is evil, ie licencing the homosexual practice and “unions” under the guise of “love”, in your comment.
True love is striving for the best interest of the beloved, a man won’t replace a woman as a suitable helper to know and live happiness in communion with God anytime soon. By God’s standards and our gendered bodies, that is so, or you can feel free to go ahead and try how your rectum is designed for penile sex without natural lubircation, see how you are a sexless soul and God is so wrong..
it is not to deprive us God says something is sinful, it is to WARN us of the dangers and consequences, losing our communion with Him, living something illegitimate to his Will, harming ourselves and others.
Finally, you wrote a lot of useless rethoric about “hell” to avoid adressing the FACT I pointed out salvation is indeed conditional in many ways.
Luke 13:5 : “Absolutely not, I tell you! But if you don’t repent, then you, too, will all die.”
Repentence.. Leaving any sinful practice, to walk with the Spirit of God in Faith.. That’s the condition for living salvation.
That marks the end of our short discussion, as I don’t debate with unbelievers and your have proven your current, willful lack of intellectual integrity already.
Farewell, please don’t bother to reply, as I won’t.
Thank you. You don’t need to reply, and thats ok, but I just wanted to take the time to say thank you. Obviously I have angered you and I apologize for that. Not sure how being angry at someone for understanding things differently than you is really showing the love of Jesus, but again we think very differently I suppose. We are, by the way .. diffierent. Each of us, and yet we are all the same. With different beliefs.
I have no shame, that doesn’t mean I don’t Love the Lord. Shame is a human feeling instigated by other human beings. My relationship with Christ is mine, and maybe each sin .. was created to experience and grow from. Ever considered that?
My only shame comes from when I treat someone unloving. And that is because it hurts my heart to hurt another.
Honestly, I started to feel angry at your response, reading with the intent to reply, but I chose to instead read with the intent to listen. Something clicked, not that it matters to you what that something was, since you asked me not to reply .. but something did click and I thank you for that.
I have every right to question the things I was taught to believe, until I find my own reason (truth) for believing them. Make sense?
I do ask of you to remember that your belief in the bible, is simply that, a belief.. and if you’re speaking to someone who doesn’t “Believe” the same things as you. You might want to consider how beating your belief into them, and insulting them is probably not the best choice in showing them your way.
Jesus was a WHOLE lot more loving and understanding than that.
Thank you though, I appreciate you and your time.
Hi, well I do struggle with anger management issues.
Someone claiming to know and love God, yet who doesn’t keep God’s commands is a liar. This, is what Chrisitans must do to “test” other so-caleld believers. Judging by your comments, you are not a believer in the God of the Biblical Revelation, or you would not oppose Scirptures / God’s values of right and wrong. simple logic. Your freedom to do so, absolutely, just please do not claim to be a believer and follower of Jesus when you don’t live by God’s moral values, that’s the reason of my anger.
Finally, I do apologize to you for my tone, uncalled for but truthful none the less. Either we take the Revelation as the truth or we leave it. Just, no lies and pretending, there are enough lies and deceivers all around medias and people to find the same in a Christian blog, of all places. Period.
Thanks.
Anger solves nothing, but I understand and can appreciate your passion about what you believe in.
Maybe it’s true that I don’t believe in the biblical God of wrath. Its actually quite humorous to me. Anger is a human trait. We humans can’t seem to grasp anything outside of our tiny little brain compacity of 10%. So we make God fit into our little boxes. God cannot be put into a box.
And to say that someone who claims to love God but doesn’t keep his commandments is a liar, is not only egostical, but is down right ignorant.
This is merely your opinion. And opinions are like buttholes, we all have one – As you so, gracefullly spoke of in your previous comment.
We humans are imperfect. Need I honestly remind you of such?
I’m sorry but I don’t believe that God can be found in a BOOK, that SIMPLE human beings wrote.
Get angry at me for our difference in beliefs if you wish. It matters not to me.
As for commenting on a Christian blog? Why not? We have freedom of speech, correct?
If I am being direspectful to the author, then I do apologize as that is not my intent.
But a Christian should always welcome questions and a difference in beliefs (Without the anger and insults)
I was simply stating from the beginning, how dare simple human beings take God’s job and make it their own.
But you know.. “Christians” have the mind set that they are above everyone else anyway.
One day, they too will see …
I will end with this post,
It is not my “egotistic ignorant opinion”, JTT..
1 John 2:4
“If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments, that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.”
christ has used Scriptures to WIN over the devil’s temptations, and prove He is Messiah and Christ fulfilling Prophecies. He did warn the Word will judge all of us, and NO ONE has the authority to add or remove a single iota (do) to the Law. The Ten Commandments that is, summed in loving god first then our neighbor as oneself, also, this I assume but safely, the Revelation of inspired Scriptures, counting prophecies and Paul & Apostles acts.
“I was simply stating from the beginning, how dare simple human beings take God’s job and make it their own.”
but this is exactty the FIRST, ORIGINAL SIN, why I got angry with you RE-PURPOSING right and wrong as you see fit, by your own experience.. I am sorry that church you were attending to expelled you, for living in concubinage if I got it right? if you are a woman, for sure that is quite an extreme thing to do, kicking you both of their church.. However, if you are a man, and have a “boyfriend”, there is no excuse, and I approve of the Church decision, probably motivated by obvious signs of homosexual behaviors like holding hands or something unproper to god’s standards, wether you / we like it or not, I am not sorry to say.
Anyway, I live by this rule from Saint Paul inspired by the Spirit of God :
1 Corinthians 5:12
“It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning.”
As I consider you an unbeliever in the Biblical God / a believer in another God, I have no business judging you, unless you claim to follow Christ, then you get some of my due judgment and “wrath” for giving a false testimony.
Apologizes for the tone again, farewell for good this time, with civility! 🙂
Christian,
I am a woman.
Farewell dear friend.
-J
Addition :
“But you know.. “Christians” have the mind set that they are above everyone else anyway.”
Jews and Muslims may be like that, as the “chosen ones”. Christians are not, or you met fake ones. We are ALL called to a same vocation of Holiness before god. The “unconditional” part is any of us welcome to be forgiven, whatever we did of our free will, to reconcile with God through faith in Christ’s blood. Even murderers and rapists.. that is how merciful God is. however, the condition is true repentence, as god can not be fooled.
Peace.
God is Merciful because he knows our hearts.
He gave us guidelines to follow, not because that was the end if we chose not to follow them, but because our life would be nourished if we chose TO follow them. Naturally. God is Merciful because he is Loving. He knew our shortage before we ever even fell.
You must understand that GOD loves us so so so very much, rapists, murderers, women who live with thier boyfriends.. he loves each and every once of us the same.. but it is US that will suffer because of our choices. There is no wrathfulness in God. He does not wish to punish.
Did I love my parents any less when I didn’t follow their rules? No, I wasn’t a liar. I stil loved them, but I was human. MADE to rebel! CREATED to sin.
My parents loved me and I returned their love with abundance.
And my parents are mere humans. GOD is So much more vast.
So much bigger. He doesn’t loook down and shake his head at us.. He doesn’t point fingers. He doesn’t punish. No matter what your “scriptures” say. You MUST remember that MAN’s faulted opinion was put into this writing. It is only your BELIEF that these are the exact words of God. All we need to do to seek God, is dive deep into our hearts and surrender to His Will. Which will be done.
No natter what we do, God is still and will always wrap his big loving arms around us and embrace us.
It’s true that maybe I was taught by Christians who weren’t really Christians… sad huh?
I’ll never call myself a Christian. Such a faulted word.
Exactly as you say, we are “punished” by consequences of our own faults and stubornness, pride in not following God’s guidelines, and “rewarded” by following them carefully. We are, “normally”, educated and humbled through suffering. to the point of slowly but surely moving away from sinning, knowing its wrong doing, and trying to hold on to holiness, with faith in God’s providence. That, is true Christianity, even without Scriptures as you say, the “school of life”.
That is to say, there is a “Law and Order” to the World, obviously by our need to eat and breath, physical laws of gravity, our gendered bodies and purposes; but as human beings, on top of that or rather as the only ground worthy of the name, MORAL laws, expressed by the Ten commandments.
The only sin that is unforgivable, is to refuse to ask, to beg forgiveness when we know, or are proven to be, to act wrong, either by others repeated judgments on us, or by our own moral consciounsess accusing us.. The real danger is when that one is numbed by habitual sin, debating, arguing what is right or wrong as relative..Scriptures are here for this reason, to set the guidelines, the rules. The Old Testament is all about the LAW, the mirror to see our faults, our sins against God’s Will for us.. AFAIK the real sign one is cut from God. is intellectual justification of themselves, confronting Scriptures and others to hold on sinning as legitimate, that is HELL and dangerous people..
I can’t find a fault in the Ten Commandments. they are HOLY, they express God’s character and will for us. To not steal, to not murder, to not have sexual intimacy with another than your engaged spouse, etc.. I don’t believe in the Bible as the exact, litteral Word of God, that is Muslims and their “divine” book, The Bible is stating to reveal the one true God, nothing short, and that it was written by humans inspired by God; any believer should,know and believe that, or they are either ignorant or “liars”, unbelievers…
As for you, why challenge Scriptures, because of that church being hard on you? Sure, ideally, you should “regulate your situation” and marry.. I don’t know why they were overzealous to kick you out, as “concubinage” is quite common, in this day and age..
The “Chrisitan” label.. It’s like saying you are American, or British. You are a member of that country, as a primary part of your identity, wherever you are in the World, or langguage you speak there, same with Christ, the Church is his body and believers, his children. Amen.
I never said anyone would be punished. Noone is going to punish anyway. What I did say was that it wasn’t the “end” if we didn’t follow those guidlines (commandments). Meaning, we are not going to be sent to “hell” if we sin or break the commandments. Which everyone sins every single day by the way.
What i did say is that our life won’t be nourished if we live that way, not because God won’t nourish it, but because a life can not be joyful if we are hurting others. The only real sin is to hurt another. We are commanded to love one another. Jesus didn’t say love only these few because they sin differently than the rest.
Back to sins/ten commandments… If you’re living a sinful life and breaking all the “rules” ..its likely you will be creating your own hell right here on earth. That is what Hell is. There is no hell-fire. Poor people who truly believe this. 😦 It makes me sad.
I don’t challenge scriptures because my church was hard on me. I challenge scripture because it is NOT the GOD I met on my floor that night when I cried out for Him just before i took my own life. The scriptures have been warped by the human mind. The human need for power and greed.
As for me, I plan to marry this man. There are reasons why we are not yet married. I could easily run to a courthouse and say my vows … but what differnce would this truly make? Honestly? God knows my heart,.. I need not explain that to anyone.
Thanks for chatting with me and also challenging me today. I have enjoyed it and wish you well.
Hi, you are welcome.
However, there is something in Scriotures showing the bright and the dark side of Humankind. That is the integrity of the Word of God. There is pain, there is bloodshed. There is hope, and redemption, too.
God will punsih, you are wrong to believe God will not. God is waiting patiently, tolerating our sins, because we are weak and sinful, yet. That is the time of Grace. When that time is ove,r either after one’s lifetime or at a date in time no one knwos, God will judge each according to their ways. That is Scriptures prophecy and promise.
Yous eem to worship an idea of god. I, too, like everyone I assume, have faced deep despair, and felt a “loving” presence somehow.. That might well be God, the Holy spirit supporting us on our journey in life.
What I want to say, you are the one wrong to doubt SCriptures. God flooded the world. God destroyed cities and killed people who did not repent when He decided they had enough time and opportunities to do so. God did not spare his own son, even in death. God request BLOOD to wash sins and punish sinners by the Ancient Law. Christ’s blood was the last God requested to calm His wrath against sins and sinners, thtat is bound to be unelashed and wipe the unrepentent, “evil doers”.Jesus Christ says, in His second coming,He will judge and punish, repent NOW and be saved.. There is a time limit to Salvation. You have to understand this, the God of fear and wrath is not a myth, the civil law is a part of God’s plan to deal with murderers and the likes, too. They deserve punishment, the capital one sometimes to ease the greaving of victims families, should the culprit not show any repentence. That event with the adultery woman, while beautiful and in line with Christ message, was a late addition. In apocryphs, one could only be forgiven of their sins ONCE. Of course the official Church selected certain excerpts of Scriptures to compose the actual Bible. We have to trust them on the Holy spirit discening what is real and what is lies.
What I mean is, we can’t livde our lives based on our feelings. Feelings are subjected to chang, so are we. This is the building on the ROCK and the building on the SAND. The sand move and you slide and drown in it.. they are human feelings. the ROCK, the WORD OF GOD is in Scirptures, as it does not change, it is safe to build upon it. I tell you for your own benefit. I trust our purpose is really to avoid the wrath of God. God is love and also Holy and Just. Unrepenting sinners will be punishe,d we have that hope, too. Yes, hope people will pay for their sins, their crimes. I hold on to this, too. I want some to pay, as they evaded Justice on Earth. Is it bad of me? I think not, this is a promise God makes. This is how your god is not the one of the Revelation but one of your feeling. A ttrue beliver has to submit their feeling to the truth of Scirptures. When you doubt they are legitimate, mistranlated and misinterpreted to cotnrol the crowd through fear and deceit, this is a devil suggestion and an obstacle to your faith.
I will make an analogy. A mother has a son.. The son does not know his father. As he grow in age, he request his mother, who is my dad..? Only his mother knows who she slept with. Only his mother can tell him, this man is, or that man is your father. The son has only two choices, to trust his mother on her word, or to doubt it his whole life..The father must be introduced by the mother, in every family. The “link” between a mother and her children is natural, the child lived within her for months, he/she intuitively knows she is his/her mother, but the link between a father and their children is very different. It must be built upon care and trust, upon WORDS..
That is the same with the Church, our mother introducing us to God, our heavly father, and to Christ. Notice in Marriage, the husband, like Chrisy, surrender his life to his wife, the Church. These are powerful symbols and truths found in Scriptures, Saint Paul speak about it, inspired by the Holy spirit.
To conclude, just like the son asking his mother, we have to TRUST her word, the Bible and Chruch word about the charatcer of God and the content of Scriptures, the valeus they are conveying, taking it or leaving it. Only two choices. And as yous ay, people leaving it will pass next a better life, for ignoring the Word of God, risking the wrath if they do not intuitively treat others with love,a s you do udnerstand and hoepfully does. Just know love is not at all about accepting whatever a person does, that is blind indifference and selfishness, carlesness. With love comes an exclusive relationship looking for the best itnerest of everyone object of our love, and punishment is due as we fail to meet cerain expectations. Just like you would scold your son to come at home his new clothes teared apart from playing outside, or put their fingers in their noses in public. It is all about educating ourselves to holiness, and that is set in stone by the Ten commandments of all things.
Sctiptures are elft for our record and reference, forbiddings are here to structure our lives as a vital necessity. Yes, I believe in the God of the Revelation, merciful and Holy to the point all sins are consumed in His Prsence.. What will happen to sinners clinging to their sins like valuables? they will be consumed..
Matthew 8:12 “But many Israelites–those for whom the Kingdom was prepared–will be thrown into outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.””
Christian, thank you for taking the time to write this message. I do understand where you are coming from, after all I grew up in the church – all my life. It wasn’t until MANY years later (I am not as young as you think) that I reazlied the Truth.
You mentioned earlier that we would just have to trust the words, however I couldn’t disagree more. Anyone can say words, any words, whatever words … words are just that words. They must have meaning behind them, and to have meaning they have to have feeling. They MUST provoke and come from some type of feeling.
That feeling CAN be trusted. Just like the feeling, that lets you know your child is in danger, or the feeling of kindness when you give.
I respect you and your desire to follow this book,. but these words were written with passionate feelings from a human being. Why were so many of the books left out of the bible? Have you read those? You should.
Do you also believe in calvinism? Predestination? … and if so, do you believe you can pick those people out?
.. just curious.
I guess you and I friend, will have to agree to disagree. I am appreciative of your sharing and concern for my soul and afterlife.
But again, How can I believe the sky is green when I can clearly see it is blue?
How can I believe what you are telling me to believe, when I have CLEARLY experienced something different. That would be like trying to shove a square into a circluar hole. It doesn’t fit.
Please see above where I completely contadicted myself. 🙂 Yikes .. Times like these, I see spirit smacking me right in the face. Hmmmm…
Like I have explained to my mother (who is shoving the bible down my throat angrily) .. One has to find Truth on their own, they can’t just believe because they are told to do so. I csan’t just jump into something that doesn’t feel right anymore.
What I experienced that night that God saved me, was something different than I had pictured God to be, so I was pushed back to square one. Like a newborn.. learning.. but its true that I ingest as much as I can on a daily basis.. which is why you responding, whether realizing it or not – helps me learn, grow, and walk my path. I question, I have that right.. for how would I find truth if I did not?
We must never discourage someone from questioning. We must never get angry or frustrated because they don’t understand like we do.
… I can see things with my own eyes that are NOT of this world. I would say ghosts, but thats not the correct word. Spirits? I don’t know. Guardian Angels? I don’t know. But the most beautiful one I ever saw was the light hovering over my infant daughter as she slept. It was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen in my life.
Christians tell me that these things are not real or either they are evil and of the devil. I know this wasn’t the case. I know what I saw, and I know it was of God.
So if I can see things that are clearly not of this world, and have been able to since I was a child (and yes I have seen spirits that are lost) … then tell me how I am supposed to believe when someone tells me that those things aren’t real? They were as REAL as my hand attached to my body.
Do you see my desparation in making sense of the things that are contridictory?
I too become angry when someone tries to tell me that I am wrong and i didn’t see anything because the bible says it is not so.
ok, I feel as though I am rambling now and have lost my train of thought. I’ll end this now and hope to hear back from you.
Hi, JTT.
I think Erik did answer very well to you, understanding the most of your motives and behavior by your first comment. I could not say it in better words.. You are believing in relativism. You believe there is one personal God for each person, by their own perception, “feeling”. This is contradictory with Scriptures and Jesus-Christ teaching and LIFE testimony, there is ONE God for all of us, indiscriminately. I mean no offense, but as you claim to follow Christ, it only prove you either lie, or rather, as I think too, that you did not process your faith to its logical conclusons, just as Erik said.
If you believe in a “higher authority”, in a god somehow, you have to confront your feeling of that presence of god with Scriptures, left for our isntructions and the REVELATION of God to us. Soemthing, for some reason, you do not do, probably because you want to hold that New Testament feeling of a loving god and reject all the rest.. Youc an, but it is dishonest, sorry to say. God is also killing evil doers when the cup is filled and theyr efused to change their ways. That’s JUSTICE. And thats is a RELIEF and a pure joy to hold on that promise.
Imagine your daugther is killed in a car accident, the culprit run away, you neever know.. You are left grieving and so hurt!!! Would it not be a RELIEF, god will judge that person and make them pay..? The color of the sky, the taste of the food, it matters not, they have little to zero implications and consequences. What’s important is MORAL values. And if you live by your own values of right and wrong and not God’s, you can’t be following Chrsit. simple logic, again.
Farewell for now, I know I don’t adress your post directly point by point but will do soon, as I find the time and inspiration. take care.
I look forward to hearing more from you, but if someone killed my daughter, as much as it would hurt and as long as it would take to process the anger, I would forgive them. I don’t seek any sort of revenge. I don’t feel the need to punish them or have anyone else punish them. Does this mean I do not love my daughter – absolutely not. What it means is that I love all human kind. We are human. ALOT of people do not know how to escape their humanly desires/sin. People that hurt others are usually hurting themselves and need and desire to be loved. They do not know themselves as an eternal being.
Forgiveness is the key to love.
As a matter of fact, I would want to spend some quality time with the person who killed my daughter. Lots of time with them. Loving them.
Jesus said, forgive 7×77 – endless amount of times. If someone attempts to steal a shirt from us, to give them everything we own and then forgive him. For those things mean nothing.
Forgive them Father, they know not what they do.
I don’t beleive in the violent God. I used to, and I never will again.
My choice of living is not a lie, it is not a GOD I made up in my head
it’s not some feel good religion.
Loving someone unconditionally is not something that humand can comprehend, much less do.
The Heart is where we receive Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit and His TRUTH and Him speaking to our Hearts (if we choose). Trust me when I say – I CHOSE. I cried out in total surrender on my knees. And my heart broke open, wide open and I saw with new eyes. THIS was my rebirth. Not any baptism in any church.
In theroy, JTT, in theory.. In practice I assume, as a human person you would be in the storm by the loss of your child, no mean to have any hold any more on the person who ESCAPED, you would have NO MEAN to find them and discuss anything to anyone.. Left with your pain.. With your faith and crying WHY!!!! to God.. The answer in Scriptures is, God will make that person pay, destroy them if they do not repent.. And I love it, as it is that side of LOVE you don’t want to see, the protection and punishment of willful evil doers.
I’m not trying to make you feel hate, but the want, the NEED for Justice. You seem very closed minded and intoxicated with “love” as a sentimental feeling, you are a woman, a mother if I read right and this is a feminine sensibility for certain… But just as I say, you refuse to consider objectively and hold on to your subjectivity, that is relativism..
I am sorry to say, this is dishonest in term of moral integrity, please don’t get offended by that judgment..As much as you believe it is right to just trust your feeling. you refuse to take everything in account, and seem to be driven by your emotions rather than a “cold”, logical, impartial, fair reasoning. It only prove you are not yet, follower of Christ. As the punishment of evil doers is a promise of God, either you rebel againt it or not.. I pray you read Scriptures and stop to live your head in the sand of your feelings, life is harsh, the world is harsh, the devil does not make any gifts, and God also does not favor anyone, that is Justice and fair impartiality.
God who did not spare His own Son.. I will tell you, in Scriptures, before Jesus gave himself to us as the price for our sins, one of the Apostles, I think Peter, did react exactly as you would have, I think.. He said, “by no means, this won’t happen to you!” as Jesus said he was to be killed by the sinners for the good of many..
I do’nt knwo you but from here, but I think safe toa ssume you would have said the same as Peter, and I would too, probably, because Iµ would love Jesus to heal us still today, walking the Earth..
Notice Jesus who knwos best.. How did He reacted to Peter.. He said, Away, DEVIL! You don’t know God, only human thoguht,s feelings..
Matthew 13:23
New Living Translation
Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God’s.”
I do’nt mean to say you are possessed or soemthing, only to prove you are not at all a believer in the God of the Revelation and my hope, myy prayer you will study in this direction, JTT..
Take care,
Then maybe friend, I am the bad fruit, as I have been told by my church. Maybe I am the evil doer. Maybe I am the sinner. According to calivinism, i am predestined and nothiing I do can change that.
How nice of a God that would send such a loving soul to an eternity of torment.
I am not at all offended by your words, as I do trust what I know.
True it is the feminine side that is the loving/emotinal side, and it is the masculine side that is the power hungry, revengeful side.
So where is the balance friend?
… and if Jesus paid the u;timate price for all the sinners … why must there be any more punishment?
Hello, JTT.
First, a little clarification, as I wrote :
“By now, I think you are have good motives but simply a believer in some other god, not the one of the Revelation, and of Christ, which makes me sad but, that is your choice, as you say, I respect it even if I disagree and wil oppose you should you claim to follow Christ, I am sorry.”
Just to mention, I INVITE you to follow christ, but will oppose you if you claim to already do, judging by your words here, ie sexless souls when we are gendered beings right in Genesis, “individuals gods” for each person’s feeling, etc.. All un-biblical beliefs.
Second, I have read a little, about Calvinism and Predestination, I understand a little better now, how we do donfront each other now.. As I grew in a Roman Catholic environment but never too influencial over me, and my faith, which is grounded in Scriptures when yours semms to have been in your Church teachings.
Well.. to be honest, I do not like Protestantism in several aspects, the most as it just blatantly transgress, sin in “reforming” and encouraging believers to do so, many of God’s set values and authority. To be fair, Catholocism do so as well, I don’t belive Mary was virgin all her life, as it is written Jesus had brothers..
That said, we are on an equal ground regarding “religion” I guess, but the main difference is that you reject both religion AND Scirptures, to hold on your “feeling” of God, which is not good as you just advance blindly, my dear.. I understand this is the result of your experience with your church, and pray you can change that, and at least, turn back to the God of the revelation, only accessible through the study of Scriptures, WHATEVER you say and think an feel, on this, however, I am uncompromising..
I think the Calvinism belief in predestination and “total corruption” are quite negative, as they both negate our FREE WILL, and MORAL RESPONSABILITY.. This, is the issue you are dealing with today, I assume as you reject the idea of a God of Wrath, and of any Judgment at all.. The article I provided to you adress this very well, if you took the time to read it, you will know God MUST punish evil, and evil doers when God decide it is time.. OR, HOW the Author of LIFE does not have any Authority over His Creation..?
To end with kind words, do not be challenged by me, as I am friendly and please step up to your own value, as you are not predestined to anything more than the rest os us all, that is our universal call to holiness, this is CERTAIN. The choice and responsibility is yours, and all you have to do, that you already do, I trust, is to surrender your life and spirituality to God, and I encourage you do do what you miss and sin by not doing, to confront your feelings to Scriptures to KNOW if they are matching with what is written about the character of God, or only your wishful thinking..If you are hoenst and remove any idea of a “bad” God unfairly judging and throwing people to Hell, you might become a true believer, and udnerstand better how this works, as God does not want to do anything with us without our willful agreement, either in blessing or in cursing us, it all happen ebcause of our own chocies, that makes it even more true for those few words : “be careful waht you wish for..” at the CENTER, the CORE of what should we focus to manage for orusleves, day by day, seeking the Will of God instead of ours..
Bless you, and I hope you can see me in a mroe friendly manner, and accept my apologize for my somewhat forceful approach, in some of my stances..
Take good care,
Hello Christian. I reveived your last comment; however, it is not showing here as I reply. Sorry for not replying sooner but I was not near a computer to do so.
I don’t feel challenged by you, nor do your beliefs anger me. What does get under my skin, is when people such as yourself, or highly religious people look down on others that don’t beleive the same as you do and become pushy with it. I think it’s rather disturbing actually.
Jesus never wished for us to worship him, he asked us to follow him. To follow his lead. Because he knew the way.
I think maybe you have misunderstood me and maybe that is my fault. See, I don’t deny the scriptures or God. Nor do I believe that I am following a false God.
Nor do I pick and choose and create my own truth.
What happened was, i was given a pair of new eyes, it would be like being given glasses to see in 3d.
I no longer just see the writing on the page so to say (which by the way is written in a way that our tiny little brains will be able to comprehend it in one way or another…
I can finally see the truth underneath of it or within it.
There is a MUCH bigger truth within it, but cannot be written out plainly for the world to read/see because most people would not be able to comprehend it, or understand it or even believe it.. so it is written in the most basic way possible. In the most physical 3rd dimensional way possible.
Hmmm…I guess this is hard to explain, unless you have had a spiritual awakening you likely won’t understand.
Thank you!! 🙂 I hope you are well!
I think we should agree to disagree, at least for now. As you seem to take my statements and Judgments as offending when I aim the objective truth. Simply, you are not believing in the God of the Revelation but one of your own feeling, as of now, by your words.
That is not to say you are a “bad person”, by the way we all are, only God is good, but it is a sign you are not a follower of Christ, as you seem to hold on this claim none the less, I still further evidence you can’t be, for the reason you are not taking Scriptures and God’s character from the Revelation as it is. As we do not know about Jesus and God, but from Scriptures! Should they have not be kept inr ecords and to this day and age they would not exist and we would not have this discussion.. My problem with you, or rather your problem with the Crhsitan faith, as I do’nt have a problem with you, is that you pick and chose only what you want to keep from what you have read or heard of the Bible, and its teachings, to fit your own interests and perception of a “loving” God, and this is dishonest, you can not deny this..
My only prayer and suggestion, is for you to make the effort of overcoming your doubts of Scriptures being man-made to control the crowd with lies and threats of punishment, as opposed to inspired by God for our instructions, for our Redemption. I trust a torough,search of the history of Scriptures would do you good should you follow my advice, examine how experts have processed the found scrolls and made ALL THEY COULD to keep an actual Bible that is TRUSTWORTHY for our faith..
Now, if you don’t like and can’t stand a God who punish people who break his Law, you are delusional as the Law is working by itself without God intervention, to adress sinners by dreadful consequences, ie shame, guilt, pride, just emotional mess of feelings that are dangerous to us, and the scriptures the helte from that, precisely.. By now, I think you are have good motives but simply a believer in some other god, not the one of the Revelation, and of Christ, which makes me sad but, that is your choice, as you say, I respect it even if I disagree and wil oppose you should you claim to follow Christ, I am sorry.
Take care, I will see later to adress your post about “surnatural”, pleasse don’t take me as an enemy and an unfair judge as It is no my intention, at all.. Peace.
I link to you an article adressing what you don’t want to know about.. God’s wrath.
Take care, and please read it, as it pain me you believe in a “watered down” idol of God.. 😦
http://www.livingbiblestudies.org/study/TT45/011.html
Hi, JTT.
You are welcome, take any of your time. 🙂
We may well be even then, as you mistake me as well, to label me as a self-righteous man looking down at others. As I quoted before, I live by Paul’s command, inspired by the Holy Spirit, warning and exhorting Christians to not judge outside of our own communities. I look most of the time humbly above to others, to learn from them what I can, and when I must confront their sin I look STRAIGHT at others, but looking down.. I don’t do, nor recall doing it or totally occasionally, to be honest!
As you seem to have claimed to follow Christ, I took it upon myself to judge and confront you. My motive to reply to you, came from your claim in your first comments the homosexual practice is approved by God, because we are “gender neutral”, “sexless souls” and they “care and love each other” .. The care and love is not a problem, indeed it is a treasured gift we have. it’s when friendship is confused with conjugal relationship, the;GRIEVOUS SIN.
I will not prove your wrong, your argument if yiou disagree with my abiove statement stand with the Word of God, judging these acts unworthy. Therefore yes, I pushed you firmly into the light of TRUTH, to expose the fallacy of your claim.
Now, if you did not claim to be Chrisitan, my bad. and pelase accept my apologizes. However, If you were and still are holding to itI push you to correct your views and stop with fasle claims.,as I have all the right to judge you and confront you on that as a fellow Crhistian, I will do it again, and again in any similar situation with anyone, be it my brother, sister, mother, wife or child, to help you not taking it personally..
Let us now agree to disagree and clsoe oru discussion, as it can only prove uselless, should you still claim to follow Christ but not live by God’s moral values in your appreciation of life and others as borthers and sisters, adopted children of God in Faith..
Take care., I wish you the best, to follow Christ indeed.. Amen.
A little closing word, for the record..
Christianity is based on the Holy Bible Scriptures being the WORD OF GOD for our lives and purpose as human beings, people doubting their Divine Authortiy in term of LAW and moral values are unbelievers and possible enemies to God, should they convey too different, opposing values, At the core of the Bible we find Faith, Hope and Charity (“love”). Charity is the most important but coming last, because sustained by the two others Theological, or Godly virtues.
We are urged to LOVE others, problem is, today’s “love” is corrupted with all sort of human emotions and expectations. Conjugal, sexual love is meant for husband and wife within their Marriage, any other romantic / sexual “experience” are clearly denounced as sinful in Scriptures, PERIOD. Biblical love, the one God has for us, and want for all of us to practice and live as the true love, is to HELP others, to feed the hungry, to cover the naked, to dry the tears of the suffering, to care for the elders, etc.. Nothing about “tolerating” sinful behaviors, at all like today’s soceities claim and push it. Away with sin, or sinners won’t be washed by Christ’s blood and saved!
The Holy spirit is ONE, believers are all Christened in ONE spirit, the same spirit Jesus Christ manifested and gave to us, namely the Faith in being “adopted” by God as His Son or Daughter. Therefore, sharing ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT of adoption by God, in fellowship with Christ, any claims of “individual way with God” or “my own values fo right and wrong” are evidence these persons are “fake” Christians, namely “liberals” and “reformative”, as GOD DO NOT CHANGE, NEITHER HIS WORD IN TERM OF HIGH MORALITY. These individuals must be denounced and confronted for countering the TRUE faith and GOAL of living a genuine Christian community. I trust this reason is clear and enough to confront “believers”, first with a kind spirit of correctiing each others as fellow Christians up to severe means of kicking them out much physically, should they claim to “have” a different Evangile, exposed in the LIGHT of the TRUTH, the Word of God doing the judging AT ANY RATE either we believe or not, so they can be corrected and either come back to the ONE spirit or indeed, go their own way outside oif the Church for the valid reason of opposing the Holy spirit work within its community.
That is not my “opinion” but an objective statement of what is Christianity in a simple and human description, so folks, either take it, or leave it. Amen
JTT, if you are interested in actually following Jesus Christ, I share with you this source link. Most ot the arguments you have raised during our discussion are adressed.. No Hell, Scriptures are not “God-breathed”, etc.. Fake Crhsitianity from liberal teachings, not sorry to say. That said, God bless you and lead you to Christ!
http://www.gotquestions.org/liberal-Christian-theology.html
Chrisitan, this is all matter of a opinion. I do follow Christ’s teachings and it doesn’t matter what you or anyone else believes or thinks. You are not my judge nor is any other Christiam for that matter. I do not call myself a Christian, nor will I ever again. Jesus did not create Christianity and Christianity has changed so many many times, and has split off into so many many directions. I want no part of it.
I do not need a label to know what it is in my heart.
You can call it what you want, you can oppose me, you can hate me, you can look down on me, you can believe what you will of me – but again your opinion matters none.
I do not believe that Christians are the “chosen ones”. Nor do I believe Christians are the only ones that will get into this place called heaven. That is an ignorant idea.
Just because your truth is yours, doesn’t mean it is mine.
Thank you for sharing the links and the information, I will most definitely take the time to read through them all.
I guess I should mention this my friend: I do not believe in hell the way most “Christians” do. I do believe a hell exists, but it is not a place. That being said, I do not believe there is a God that would send his beautiful children to this so called place that Christians believe in called Hell, because they chose not to believe in his son. We are ALL his children.
I am not afraid, not in the least. I am SO SURE of the God that saved me that I do not fear your God.
…and let me tell you this, that if I am wrong. IF I AM WRONG … I do not want to be near a God or in the same place as a God that would send his children to a place of torment for eternity for messing up during his mere 80 years of life.
I want no part of that God, that would choose a Christian child molester, over a giving, compassionate and loving muslim, or hindu, or buddhist.
That is an arrogant God – And I want no part of it. NONE.
GOD is love. LOVE is forgiveness. Forgiveness is humble.
Even for those people WHO DO NOT ask for forgiveness for the wrong they have done – I do not believe in punishment. I do not believe they will be sent away. I believe they will reap what they sow. They will never find true joy.
I also believe in reincarnation, our souls are pure energy. The energy can never ever be destroyed. I believe the soul must relive, until it learns what true love and forgiveness are.
As a Christian, you will laugh at that idea, and thats ok. Again, I don’t need your approval. I know what I have seen and experienced and I need not ever fall back to that silly belief system of fearing God.
Fine, dismiss my effort to correct you back to Scriptures teachings as simply a matter of differing opinon. Ignore you would not know ANYTHING about Jesus and His teachings without Scriptures telling us. How hypocritical..
That said, let us now courtesusly agree to disagree, to not get it more unpleasant for the both of us.
Take care, and God bless you, no matter what..
I’m sorry you feel I am being hypocritical and even more so I am sorry that becase we disagree it angers you so much. IT IS OK for two people to not believe the same things. It doesn’t make us enemies. Unfortunately that is what religion has done.. create enemies and then murders.
I have one question for you, or whoever wants to answer it.
Does God Love me unconditionally?
God’s love is not based on the merits of the recipient. It is not based on the actions of the recipient. His love stirs us to action, to obedience, to faithfulness but it is not based on those things. His love is not based on our response. He still loves even when we do not respond properly. Even His discipline is wrapped in love.
He will also lovingly send you away from His presence if that is your desire.
But you did not answer the question. Does God love me unconditionally? The answer is simple yes or no.
IF his love is unconditional, than there are no condition for God’s love.
Meaning, no matter my faults, my sins, my weakness, my good, my bad, My religion, my believe… his love is strong and true and real (unconditional). With this love is forgiveness. This is a love than humans cannot fathom, so we create a conditional love of God.
With unconditional love, there can BE NO ETERNAL DAMNATION.
If it was so, then God would be forever hurting and unhappy. But He is not. He is joyful and loving through and through.
He is NOT wrathful. For Love and Jealousy and Anger DO NOT GO TOGETHER.
See 1 Corinthians 4-8.
Love is Patient and Kind. It is NOT jealous or boastful.
Kind is not throwing someone into a pit of hell because they deserve to be punished. Its an egotistical way of thinking. God is not egotistical or Arrogant.
SO I ask you a simple question: Does God love you unconditionally? Does he love ME unconditionally. Or is he a picky and choosy God?
Erik states:
“He will also lovingly send you away from His presence if that is your desire.”
I think sometimes Erik just makes up stuff out of the blue.
Gary, we have to remember that everything is blended with a dose of human opinion. Including the bible.
Actually that is Biblical.