More great stuff from homosexuals and their supporters. I love the fact that they keep on writing because it just proves my point over and over again. Enjoy.
“I have the right to protect myself from homosexuality and also my kids from its dangers.”
Sure you have. Just as much as you have the right to shield your kids from inter-racial marriage. You do not personally have to interact with any inter-racial couples, you do not have to teach your children about them and so on. No one can force you to do that.
“You can have this love too. It is available for all, even to homosexuals. They must repent and turn away from their sinful lifestyles. ”
Then it’s not really available to homosexuals, is it now? “Even black people are allowed in here! But only if they paint themselves white and pretend to be someone else.”
Did you notice the shift? I was talking about something that is a choice, homosexuality, and these people, who have no argument, shift the focus to race, something that is not a choice. This is a cheap tactic and shows a tremendous lack of intellectual integrity. This is the type of logic and deceptive tactics that homosexuals and their supporters use.
You do NOT have the right to demand that the state supports your bigotry. You do NOT have the right to dicate other peoples behaviour according to your bigotry.
By not agreeing with the sin of homosexuality, I am accused of being a bigot. I thought we lived in a free country where freedom of thought was promoted? I guess it is only for those who agree with the ideas and thoughts of homosexuals and their supporters.
Here are some more classic attacks.
“Also, all of human civilization is based on one man and one woman pairing up and raising the next generation.”
This concept is impossible. Your bible is a fairytale. Get over it.
In answer to my statement, this person (with no evidence to back up the claim) acts like a child on the playground. I keep waiting for one of them to write “nana nana boo boo”.
More great stuff here:
There is a great law, God’s.
No, you’re wrong about that. It is not real.
Have you noticed the lack of evidence? I have noticed it. In all of my posts, I give evidence for my arguments yet you see what the “logical” response of atheists and homosexuals is.
Homosexuals do not know what love is, agape, self-sacrificial love
Do you sit up at night wondering whether homosexuals have souls?
Again, instead of answering the question or statement, we get another one who tries to “shift” the focus. It is a classic tactic among these people. No wonder God says that they are futile (useless) in their minds.
The only truth I see is that there is nothing but lies in your post.
You are a hateful little man and a waste of oxygen.
Once again, if you do not agree with their lifestyle, then you are hateful. In other words, people do not have the right to disagree with the homosexual lifestyle without being hated on. What a great group of “free” thinkers these homosexuals and atheists are!!!
Shame on you for procreating Erik, so you’ll have a little brood of hate-filled minions to pass the torch on to.
Not only do they attack me, but they also attack my children. Do you see how aggressive homosexuals and their friends are?
“You can have this love too. It is available for all, even to homosexuals.”
But only if they stop being homosexual? (Which they can’t.) Yeah, really loving.
Again this assumes that homosexuality is not a choice and that homosexuals are born that way. The evidence demonstrates that homosexuality is a choice. There is no gay gene. Unless you can prove it, I would not keep kicking a dead horse if I were you. But, homosexuals have a lot in common with Hitler. They also believe that if you tell a lie loud enough and long enough then people will start believing it.
“I have the right to protect myself from homosexuality and also my kids from its dangers.”
What dangers? The hordes of gays beating your door down trying to steal away your children?
Seriously. Get a grip. These people aren’t threatening you or your family. You just don’t . . . like them, and you wish them harm because they are different from you. At least be honest about it, and stop banging on about love when what you really feel is hate.
The homosexuals are not knocking on doors. They are trying to get in all of the public schools. They do not need to come to every door if we send our children to the public schools. Would someone please point out where I have said that I wish harm upon homosexuals? I need some evidence. I am not a macro-evolutionist, I need proof.
Please tell me how not agreeing with the sin of homosexuality is violent,aggressive,condemning and intolerant?
It isn’t. However, trying to make homosexuality illegal, and trying to legislate us out of existence is.
It is not illegal in the USA to be homosexual. I never said that it was and I have never said that I pushed for homosexuality to be illegal. This is another straw man argument set up by the homo. They attack what they assume I mean instead of what I actually say. What cheap tactics. But I am used to this. When a homosexual or an atheist cannot win the argument, instead of humbly admitting defeat, he/she reverts to cheap tactics and personal attacks.
There is a great law, God’s.
That’s nice. I don’t believe in your religion, though, so why must I adhere to yuor dogma?
As if an atheist’s lack of belief in reality (the existence of God) actually alters reality. You do not have to belief that you need a parachute when jumping out of a plane. You can ignore all the evidence if you want, that is your choice, but reality is reality.
We are starting to see the consequences of it.
That being what? That June and Ward Cleaver couples are seen as the rose tinted glasses view of the family that they were? That both parents are now needing to work, just to make ends meet? You folks are good at pointing out ominous doom around us, but are never really good at pointing out direct cause and effect.
The sexual revolution of the 1960‘s brought about a huge rise in single mother families. Single mothers, who raise kids (on a whole, not one case) have led to an increase in crime in the USA. I would recommend that you read this. (debate the facts of chapter 2). The rise in the crime rate goes hand in hand with the destruction of the family, made up of one man and one woman.
God condemns a lot of things, yet you choose this one thing to devote yourself to?
I have written on the dangers of all forms of immorality yet the homosexual crowd ignores that and just focuses on itself. That is typical of homosexuals, they are very self-centered.
I do not understand your logic. Your rights end where mine begin.
And yet your rights continue over ours. I fail to see what makes you so special that you get to tell us how to live our lives.
I have never tried to tell anyone how to live his/her life. You can live any way that you please. I have mentioned the dangers of the homosexual lifestyle. You can still live it, even though you know the risks. Plus, God allows you to live as you please. You choose your actions. God, on the other hand, gives the consequences of your actions. He tells you what they are before you take the first step. You can choose to ignore the warning if you want. Also, your rights end where mine begin. When homosexuals want to change the laws of marriage in the country where I live, then I have the right to stand up against it.
If homosexuals were not so aggressive in their promotion of homosexual propaganda then they would not be criticized so much.
What propaganda? That we’re people too, and that we deserve to just be left alone to live our own lives?
If homosexuals wanted to be left alone then they would not be trying to teach children in public schools about homosexuality. Also, they would not be lobbying for laws on a national level. From their actions (gay pride parades) we see that homosexuals want to impose their lifestyle on society.
Also, all of human civilization is based on one man and one woman pairing up and raising the next generation.
Um, not even the . . . Bible is based on that. How many of the . . . patriarchs had one woman? Jeez, read your own . . . holy book.
The fact that people in the Bible chose to disobey God does not change the standard. This is another weak argument by the pro homo crowd. Would you allow builder’s to change the standard of measure as they feel like doing? How would you build anything if each builder had his own standard set of measurements. If one decides to do it, does that mean that everyone else should change their standard for the one? I do not think so.
Erik and Elena Brewer's Weblog 
I wonder if you’ve looked at the Wikipedia article on homosexuality. It demonstrates well enough that current scientists find that homosexuality is an inborn trait and not a choice. Even though you may say that Wikipedia is an unreliable resource, and in academic terms, it is, it nevertheless quotes and links to reliable academic sources that you can read for yourself (this way, you don’t have to trust information that anyone can edit).
One of the article on homosexuality’s sources, a 2007 study by the Royal College of Psychiatrists, reads “there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.”
Another paper published by the American Psychological association states that sexual orientation may be fluid, or determined over the course of a person’s lifetime. You should understand that even a theory of fluid sexual orientation does not discount the idea that one can possess a fixed sexuality. For example, I am certain that you know that you are straight. You are attracted to women, have married one, and have even produced a child through your union. That’s great – but what if the circumstances of your life, a hormonal imbalance, or a variety of other factors come into precisely the right alignment to cause you to doubt your attraction to women? What if you begin to find men to be more apt companions in your later life, and then discover that your attraction to men is not only intellectual or platonic?
Would you feel as if you had a choice and made the wrong decision?
Given that there is no “gay gene,” but a variety of biological factors that my influence a person’s predisposition toward a given sexuality as well as environmental and experiential variables, no one may know for certain that their sexualities are stable. You may prefer the attraction you feel at a given time, but times change, and so do we.
What evidence is there that homosexuality is a choice? Current scholarship indicates that it is a biological and psychological phenomenon, whether or not it is caused by a “gay gene.”
So, the questions you need to answer, from a Christian point of view, is – if homosexuality is a mental trait or the result of a hormonal imbalance or other issues:
Is it correct to say that homosexuality is a choice? Do victims of tragedies choose to have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? Do the mentally ill choose to become schizophrenic? Do men who cannot grow beards choose to produce less testosterone than other men?
One informed by current research as well as a basic concern for human dignity would answer “no” to all of these questions.
You may say that society has an interest in protecting schizophrenics from themselves, but how can the same be true for homosexuals when, if you consult the Wikipedia article, studies have shown that many of your concerns about how homosexuals may pass on their traits to children are unfounded?
Homosexuals appear to be functioning members of society who are no more prone to contracting diseases or participating in gross sexual perversion than would be anyone else. Homosexuality is not a communicable “disease.”
Other than the fact that homosexual behavior is prohibited according to your strict religious beliefs, why do you object to homosexuals raising public awareness of themselves, encouraging children to accept themselves and their feelings for what they are before self-hatred and other neuroses can develop, and fighting against political restrictions that deny them the constitutional right of freedom of association? Marriage, I would argue, is a form of association that cannot be denied to any American citizen regardless of whom they wish to marry and regardless of how anyone else may feel about what their choices are.
No one is attempting to “convert” your children to homosexuality. No one is even attempting to force you to accept homosexuals, though I am sure that you feel that this is happening. Homosexuals fighting for legislation that allows them to enjoy their lives in a manner that, I’m sure you would think, is “in spite” of their rejecting treatment for their “condition,” is not dangerous.
If you’re going to reply that homosexuals are the primary spreaders of AIDS, that the homosexual lifestyle exposes men to contamination and disease, and that most homosexuals wish to rape children, these things are simply not true. There is a mountain of evidence to the contrary that I would encourage you to explore with an open mind. As I wrote before, a good place to begin would be on the Wikipedia article.
I will not call you a bigot. Surely, you are entitled to your beliefs. But are you strong enough to “live and let live?”
After all, if your children are not homosexual for biological reasons and also do not encounter events in their formative years that encourage them to bond with the same sex, their acknowledging that homosexuals have a right to live as they see fit, whether or not their lifestyle is a choice, will not cause your children to also become homosexuals.
But if they are homosexual, they will at least find that society will accept them even if you choose to withhold your love from them because you believe they have made an incorrect choice.
All anyone is trying to say to you, whether their words are hateful or kind, is that homosexuals are not worthy of your contempt and that there are far more serious problems to worry about. I’ll put it simply. The causes of homosexuality appear to be both behavioral and biological. Since you cannot guarantee that your children will be heterosexual, (the jury is still out on the exact causes of homosexuality – and how do you think you can control something that no one fully understands?) the most humane and decent thing to do is to love homosexuals.
You have a right to believe that homosexuality is a sin, even in the sense that sloth and greed are sins – but we are all sometimes lazy and greedy, and from this point of view, you can no more condemn homosexuals than you can condemn yourself for your own faults. Do not be so hasty to exclude yourself or your family from the company of homosexuals. We can all choose to be gluttonous or lazy, but I defy you to stop indulging in these behaviors entirely. I defy you to live your life without the company of anyone who is not lustful, greedy, envious, wrathful, gluttonous, slothful, prideful, or full of any other sin. You will quickly find yourself alone and a victim of self-loathing.
If you believe that to err is human, both you and homosexuals are no exception to that rule – and are you not worthy of acceptance, love, and should you not be allowed to err until you see the consequences of your own crooked path?
Why hate or condemn homosexuals more than you would hate or condemn yourself or your family? If you believe that their lifestyle will lead them astray, there is nothing you can do to stop them. You might as well allow them to continue in their sin until they dawn upon the salvation in Christ that you have found. What did you do before you came to Christ? What are your sins today? What will they be tomorrow?
If you spare yourself condemnation, you must spare your brothers and sisters. It is only fair.
That is the point of everyone who is criticizing you. It is foolish to condemn homosexuals in particular without condemning murderers in particular or slackers, or adulterers, or any other servant to a specific sin. Christianity may require repentance, but it does not require perfection.
I would encourage you to remember homosexuals the next time you sin, and to remember to pray for them if you believe that they do such great wrong.
Do you really disbelieve that Christ’s work has been in vain, and that his message will not conquer all in the end? That is what your statements seem to imply.
However, many homosexuals will be saved. I have a feeling that you’ll be surprised at who you see in heaven! So, take heart, and relax!
There is no actual proof that homosexuality is inborn. Some scientists (not all) claim that it seems to be an inborn trait. Seems to be and is are 2 totally different things.
May I point out the word “appear” (not a 100% agreeable fact).
I know there are pro homosexual scientists who would love to find the gay gene but they just cannot do it. God says that homosexuality is a choice and modern science has done nothing but prove that statement by God.
I wrote about homosexuality being a choice and linked to an article published by the APA that shows that not all agree that homosexuality is inborn (not all from the APA).
Again the phrase “sexual orientation may be fluid”. (not a fact, an assumption)
My wife and I are in a covenant. I will die before I break that covenant (that what marriage vows are, a commitment until death do us part). That probably does not mean much to you but since I am a born again Christian, I keep the promises that I make. As Jesus said, my yes is yes and my no is no.
I know we can change. I was once a slave to immorality (like homosexuals are). I was not homosexual but I was immoral (not in my actions but in my mind) I was a slave to pornography. God changed me and set me free from that slavery. I know that people can come our of sexual sin (homosexuality is a sexual sin).
All sexual sins are a choice. I do not rape. I do not commit adultery. I do not fornicate. Those are all things that I could do but I choose not to do them. I have hormones like any other male. I have desires like any other male. I choose self-control and I choose not to act according to hormones or desires. How else can I emphasize “choice”?
I never say that homosexuals will pass on their traits to children. They can convince children to try homosexuality, leading them to become slaves to the sinful lifestyle. Many ex gay men confess to being sexually abused by men and that led them into the gay lifestyle.
Homosexuality spreads it propaganda through many outlets (mass media, public schools, colleges and universities, etc. etc.) Homosexuality is shown as something normal yet no one seems to want to show the very real negative impact of the homosexual lifestyle. Why is that? That is the way propaganda works, only show one side of the argument to convince the naive.
Marriage is a privilege, not a right. You need to be able to provide for your family, have a place to stay, etc. You have to earn marriage. That is your first flaw in logic. Secondly, the union of man and woman is the bedrock of society. When you mess with the foundation, the rest suffers. Homosexuals have the same rights that I do. They are protected under the law.
Homosexual men are at a much higher risk than heterosexual men (risk, not numbers) of STD’s. The risk among heterosexuals drops dramatically when immorality is removed. If immorality were eliminated then STD’s would disappear. Homosexuality is immorality. It spreads disease.
I live and let live. Homosexuals can do what they want in their bedrooms. The problem is, they will not stay there. They promote pride parades, changing the laws of the country, homosexual curriculum in public schools etc. You are asking me to be silent while homosexuals have the right to propagate everywhere. That is just not correct on your part.
Do not worry about my kids, I will inform them of the dangers of immorality (homosexuality) and they will not fall prey to the predators.
I just pointed out the dangers of homosexuality. I do not hate homosexuals and I do not hold them in contempt (that is what you attribute to me). I disagree with their lifestyle and I have solid evidence of why I do.
I have sinned, I do not deny that, but unlike homosexuals, I have repented of my sins. If homosexuals would have repented of their sins then they would no longer be living the homosexual lifestyle. Repentance sets you free from your slavery to sin.
I did a lot of bad stuff before coming to Christ. I know what it means to be forgiven and I know that homosexuals can receive that same forgiveness.
I do not spare myself condemnation. God is the One who spared me and He offers the same for homosexuals.
All sin is condemned, and once again, I have written of the dangers of all forms of immorality. Read the blog and you will see that.
In order for a homosexual to be “saved” he must turn away from the sin of homosexuality. If he does not, then he will not be saved. God is very clear on the subject (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
Hey Erik, answer me this. If sexual orientation is a choice, when did you choose to be heterosexual?
That is an original question on your part. I have never been asked it before 🙂
God made the choice for me when He created me male. I choose to obey Him by being heterosexual (on a daily basis).
Nice try though.
If God made you the way you are, then he also made me the way I am. You say God made you as a male with a tendency to like the female form. If we go by that same logic, God made me as a male with a tendency to like male and female forms, in addition to feeling like my body doesn’t exactly 100% fit my self-identification. He also would know that I would choose to have a relationship with a male and also that I would choose to want to live my life with a body that fits my self-identified nature.
Why is this wrong?
God never made anyone homosexual. Homosexuality is a choice that you make. It is direct disobedience to God.
Everything is direct disobedience to God. You’re ignoring the point though. If God made me, then he made me with all the desires and all the nuances that make me who I am – correct? If he did this, he made me with the desire to like both men and women – correct? He also made me with the inability to identify my mental gender (female) with my physical sex (male) – correct?
Why then, would God punish me for being who he made me?
God did not create you homosexual. Again, that is your choice.
So I’m incorrect in my assumption that God created me with the identity he did? Is that what you’re saying? If God is omniscient, he would know my future, and he would have programmed into me some bit that enjoys both male and female companions as well as a mild form of gender identity disorder.
Either God created me knowing in the future I would be bisexual (not homosexual, you’re right there) or God is not omniscient.
According to the Bible, God created male and female for the purpose of marriage and procreation. If He made you a woman then you will have to choose to express your sexuality with your husband. If He created you male, then you will have to choose to express your sexuality with your wife. Again, the choice is yours. You can obey God or disobey. Homosexuality is disobedience to God.
Bisexuality is also immorality. Again, God created you either male or female and you choose what you do with the obedience to Him.
Please stop trying to wrangle with words. You are not going to confuse me or trap me into saying something that I do not wish to say. It is quite childish.
You’re forgetting, Erik, that there is scientific evidence that sexuality is directly linked to biological & chemical conditions in the body.
One cannot suddenly choose to be attracted to someone they normally are not. For example: Say Joe finds obese women unappealing. Can he one day simply say, “I will prefer obese women today!” and suddenly find himself sexually aroused by people he found unattractive moments before? No. It does not work that way.
Also, I’ve noticed quite a few places in your blog where you misrepresent, quote-mine, intentionally take quotes out of context (as you did here), and even outright lie. For someone who claims to be so fervently Christian, you like to break the 9th Commandment on a regular basis.
Oh, and there is no “homosexual lifestyle.” Homosexuals & bisexuals, male and female, are as varied and different as heterosexuals. Also, they are no more promiscuous than heterosexuals. Proof? The #1 risk group for STDs is straight males; the lowest-risk group is lesbians. That’s according to the CDC.
Lastly, explain a few of your claims:
-That society is built on “one man, one woman” marriage, despite the fact that history and even your own Bible give examples of other forms of marriage that did nothing to erode society or the sanctity of marriage. Examples: Greece, Rome and China having widespread same-sex marriage during their golden years; King David & Solomon having many wives at once; dozens, if not hundreds, of civilizations treating same-sex marriages as normal throughout history (including today in the most fruitful European nations).
-Your claims regarding your “friend” in the St. Louis police department. I work in the SLPD (Bureau of Crimes Against Persons), and I can confidently say that you’re either lying, or misrepresenting our policies. We ask about sexual connections in regard to ANY violent crime, not just those involving men.
-The idea that “marriage is a privilege, not a right. You need to be able to provide for your family, have a place to stay, etc. You have to earn marriage.” None of those are prerequisites for legal marriage. All one has to do is get a marriage license & have it signed by a Justice of the Peace. You can get married even if jobless & homeless. Seems you’re making things up… again. Keep in mind that the laws of the United States are based on secularism, not theocratic notions.
-You using a book by notoriously-biased Sarah Palin – who is NOT a reliable source of information and has been proven incorrect/outright lying on multiple occasions – instead of peer-reviewed fact sources. Also, explain why you ignore the fact that corellation does not equal causation (unless you honestly want to concede that a lack of pirates is responsible for climate changes).
-Your (flawed) connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. It is a fact, Mr. Brewer, that most pedophiles are actually straight.
-Your intentional misrepresentation of the link between serial killers and sexuality. The MAJORITY of murderers are heterosexual, sir. That is what one poster was trying to convey, but you quote-mined and misrepresented him to make it seem as if he was saying that it was “okay because straights do it too.” I think you know he was pointing out the error in your statement, and are merely engaging in misdirection. How very hypocritical of you, sir.
It’s a good thing you’re not a lawyer, Mr. Brewer. You would have been disbarred for perjury, slander, and misrepresentation long ago.
Can you please show some evidence of your claims that I have lied or misquoted? I will gladly change a quote if I misquoted something. As to lying, well, until you actually have proof . . .
As I have written on another comment. All of us have a sin nature that lures us to do things contrary to God’s Word. For example, I am tempted to look at pornography even though I know that it is wrong. Being tempted is normal. Christians and nonbelievers alike struggle with temptation. The difference is, Christians are able to say no to temptation and sin. I say no to pornography because I make that choice. I was once a slave to it before I became a Christian. Now God has given the power to me, to say no. Don’t excuse our sin nature by saying we cannot help it. That is the beauty of the Gospel, It gives us the ability to say no. It is hard for someone who has never been set free from his/her slavery to sin, to understand what this power is. I am trying to share that with all people, especially those of the homosexual crowd.
You wrote “they are no more promiscuous than heterosexuals. Proof?”
Check the article and you will see the source. Please read the source before you claim that I have no proof.
You wrote “Proof? The #1 risk group for STDs is straight males”
You forgot to qualify the statement. Not just straight males, straight immoral males. I am a straight male who practices morality and my chances of getting an STD are almost 0. There is a chance of being raped by a homosexual with an STD or it would be 0.
How many times will I have to explain the same things over and over again. God intended, from the beginning (you cannot get any earlier than that) that society would be built on the family unit of one man and one woman joined in the bonds of marriage. Now, many men in the Old T. chose not to obey God’s plan. They paid the price for it. If you would actually read the Bible instead of throwing that cheap example at me (which keeps getting regurgitated over and over again) then you would notice the difficulties that went along with the multiple wives. God never intended that yet man chose to disobey. It is like homosexuality. God never intended it but man has chosen to disobey Him and practice it.
What happened to ancient Greece and Rome? Maybe there is a connection between their down fall and their immorality. God forewarned in the Scriptures (way before Greece and Rome came into power) that if you practice sexual immorality as a society, be ready to pay the price. The Greeks did not listen. Neither did the Romans.
Just because a few do not want to live according to the standard, that does not mean that we change the standard. Would you do this in construction, change the standard because a handful of people do not want it? I did not think so.
Yes, and the laws of this nation are voted on by the people. Anytime the sanctity of marriage act is taken to the people for an actual democratic vote, the people vote to keep marriage defined as being between one man and one woman.
I think you should take a look at the link. I did not link to anything by Sarah Palin. I am sure you hate her and wish that I had done that but, that is your own fantasy.
I did link to a book written by Ann Coulter and I still have not seen anyone debate the facts or prove her wrong (just a bunch of liberals ranting and raving about her personally , yet they never take on the facts).
When a male has relations of the sexual kind with another male, that is homosexuality (no matter what ages are represented). Male with male is homosexuality. You just cannot explain that one away because God did not use a word that you can manipulate but He described the action. Although homosexuals do some interesting mental gymnastics to try and show how a male having sexual relations with a younger male is not homosexuality. God wins (He knew your tactics long ago).
Heterosexuals commit murder, no one ever denied that. So do homosexuals. The idea that it is okay that homosexuals do it because heterosexuals do it, is bad logic. I just had to point that out. Sorry if you do not like it, but it is a fact.
Slander? Perjury? Misrepresentation? I am the one who is being called homophobic. I am the one who is being called the closet homosexual. I am the one whose kids have jabs taken at them. I am the one who is called a hater (simply because I do not agree with a lifestyle choice). I think you have confused who is being slandered.
I’m not trying to trap or trick you. It’s an honest question, and that which caused me to wrestle away from being a Christian. God created me in a manner that is directly in opposition to his nature. Why would a loving, perfect God create me – knowing that I would wrestle with my feelings and wrestle with my identity – and punish me for eternity in Hell because of it?
You cannot stop being a Christian. You were never one to begin with if you walked away from the faith. Once you enter into covenant with God (the New Covenant or Testament) it is for eternity. This is what the Bible teaches so please do not get angry with me. If you walk away from the faith, that proves that you were not really of the faith. (I John 2).
Please stop blaming God for your choice. He did not create you homosexual or bisexual, those are choices.
All of us wrestle with emotions and feelings (it is called a sin nature and we all have it). True Christians are able to overcome their sin nature and say no to sin and temptation (again, simple teachings of the Bible). My sin nature wants me to look at pornography but I choose not to do it. You are not unique, all of us have this nature. It is not God’s fault, it is ours for selling ourselves into the bondage of sin.
God did not create the lake of fire for you. He created it for Satan and his angels. Because you choose to go the path of Satan and his angels, you end up where he is and experience what was meant for him. Again, please stop blaming God.
… (edited for extremely foul language) you, Erik.
That is your response to a logical argument? Did you put much thought into writing that?
I do not hold it against you. You are lost in your sins and that is the way that you are supposed to think/act. God can forgive you and give you a heart of love instead of hatred.
No. That’s not a logical response. I apologize for the foul language, I usually do take the time to think more clearly. You merely tried my patience to the breaking point. I put a serious question forward – the very thing that broke my faith in the first place – and you have the condescension to brush it away as if it wasn’t a part of who I was.
I was a believer for 13 years. I saw and felt and believed as strongly as anyone else. When times got hard, I prayed to God. I praised him, I worshiped. When things started getting troubling for me was about my puberty years and I started to get seriously depressed over my bodily image. I wasn’t who I felt like I was supposed to be – do you know how that feels, Erik? Do you know how it feels to wake up in the morning and feel like someone put you in an body completely alien to you? It’s scary, it’s depressing, but I couldn’t tell my parents because they were Christian. I couldn’t talk to my pastor because he was Christian. It wasn’t in the Bible. It wasn’t being answered in prayer.
When I came out as bisexual to myself last year, and I came to realize my gender identity was out of whack, I began healing. I began to realize that everything was okay. I’m more clear-headed and happy now. Out of Christianity all I got was self-doubt, depression, and disgust. Out of atheism, I’m happy, confident, and enlightened.
So, I’m done here. You can jabber all you want to the walls. I’m through with your condescension and your ignorance.
Please read this response for a Biblical understanding of how a person who claims to be a Christian and then walks away from the faith, was never really of the faith. I do not want to repeat myself a million times.
Have you ever been born again? The time when you became a new creation (spiritually speaking). God changed your character to His character. He set you free from slavery to sin. You can now say no to sin and temptation every moment of every day. If that has never happened then you were never born again. You may have gone to a Christian church but unless you are born again, you are not a child of God, a genuine Christian. You can hang out with Christians, talk like them etc, but eventually your true nature will reveal itself.
Again, you can be set free from the sin of bisexuality. It is a lifestyle which brings slavery. God is able to break that bondage and give you the power to say no to sexual impulses (I used the example of porn in another comment).
How dare you call someone else’s faith (or former faith) into question? I was a Christian once, and I was extremely devout; if you’d told me then that ten years from now I’d be atheist I would’ve laughed at you. Does my lack of faith now change what I once believed? Hardly. To draw a (probably bad) comparison, does a 12-year-old girl’s obsession with Twilight have any less meaning when she grows out of it and realizes how stupid it really is? No, because it meant the world to her then. As for homosexuality, I fully support your right to rant about it on blogs all you want. But to quote you, your rights end where mine begin. And it’s my right to be treated as a normal human being, regardless of whether I’m gay, straight, bisexual, or asexual. I’m human, and that should be enough.
Here is some Biblical proof of those who walk away from the faith.
As you can see from the 2 references (one is the words of Jesus Christ) that not everyone who “claims” to be a Christian is actually one. Also, the fact that you leave the faith is proof that you never really were of the faith (written by John, the writer of the Gospel which bears his name, the same one who wrote of being born again, which you have not been)
Where have I said that homosexuals are not human beings?
Look to the story of the prodigal son before you start telling everyone who’s lost their faith that they never had it to begin with. You don’t know the end of my story; maybe I just need time.
And no, you never said that homosexuals aren’t human. You just say that they don’t deserve equal rights. You say that it’s a choice, but you seem to be limiting your rants to American gays. If homosexuality really is a choice, then why do people in countries where they could be executed legally for being gay, choose to be gay?
I didn’t choose my orientation. If I could have chosen it would’ve been so much easier. Maybe I wouldn’t have been driven out of my church if I could’ve chosen the “right” orientation.
The prodigal son became a true believer when he came to his senses and repented. Before that, he was in the father’s house but he was not like the father. The other son, he never repented. He was in the house but not of the house. Look at the audience of the parable (people who considered themselves believers, but did not repent and did not see the need of repentance, they were never born again). The context will help interpret the passage. Again, just passing along what the Bible (God) says on the subject. You can believe what you want. I choose to believe what God says.
Homosexuals are protected under the law just like heterosexuals. What is not equal about that?
All homosexuality is a choice. Being gay in any country causes the death penalty to loom over your head. AIDS is just waiting for you (along with many other STD’s)
If you will humble yourself, repent of your sins, turn away from them, and dedicate your life to being a disciple of Jesus Christ then you will be set free from all of your sins (especially the sin of homosexuality). You will be transformed from the inside out (born again). That, like homosexuality, is your choice.
You’re assuming I’m gay. I never said I was; I’m asexual, not gay. Not that it makes any difference to people like you: anything but heterosexual is wicked and unscriptural.
Homosexuals are protected from hate crimes, yes, and even discrimination (in most states), but that is not equal rights. Telling a gay person he has the same right to marry a woman as any other man, doesn’t mean anything. I’ve known gay couples who spent 20 years together, and the government refuses to recognize it. But straight people can legally be married to a different person every couple years, and I don’t see any Christians pointing that out as wicked. Unless you also preach as strongly against eating shellfish, wearing polyester clothes, and working on Saturday, you have no right to harp on homosexuality as the unforgivable sin.
Okay, it is great that you are not homosexual. But, you defend the sin of homosexuality and according to God, you are in the same category as homosexuals. The path to forgiveness still applies to you.
Every person in the USA can marry. There is no law that says a person can or cannot marry. There is a law for “whom you marry”. Homosexuals have the right to marry. They just do not want to obey the “whom you marry” part.
I like how you compare moral laws (homosexuality is a sin) to dietary and ceremonial laws. That is such a weak argument (so weak that Obama even uses it)
Homosexuals can be forgiven. It has happened in the past and still happens today. I showed the process to you.
I hope you’re not trying to quote me there, because I never said that.
Can you please explain to me why it’s okay to say that this law was ceremonial and this law was moral, when they’re from the same section of the Bible? Look at it from a survival viewpoint: in an era where a nation’s survival isn’t guaranteed, it would make sense to outlaw any relationship that couldn’t result in offspring. We don’t have that problem today, so the law is no longer valid.
Also, many Christians say that the entire Levitical law is invalid because Jesus fulfilled it with his sacrifice. That’s why we no longer are bound to the Levitical law. Except for the obvious ones that cause harm to other people and homosexuality. I don’t understand why you think homosexuality causes harm to anyone other the people involved.
Also, and this is my biggest problem with your argument, the United States is not a Christian nation. The laws are not governed by religious beliefs, and that’s a good thing. You probably agree with me on that regarding Muslim law, or Buddhist law; don’t you see that Muslims, Buddhists, and pretty much every other religion out there, don’t want to follow Christian-based laws, either? That’s why laws should be restricted to what causes harm to people other than the person committing the crime. And homosexuality does not fit that. Even in your worldview it doesn’t harm anyone except those involved.
I placed that quote in the wrong spot (there are a lot of you guys to try and keep up with). I have removed the quote and placed it in the correct comment. Sorry about the mistake.
The way a priest was to cut his hair was specifically for the priests of Israel (because of the pagan practices that were happening during that day, which involved hair cutting). That was a ceremonial law and had nothing to do with morality (except for the fact that the pagan practices also involved immorality in gross forms). Shellfish was dietary law (again, nothing to do with morality). They did not have the food preservation methods that we have today so they had to be careful about what they ate and how they stored food. Shell fish are usually the garbage cans of the sea (they even eat fecal matter). It makes sense not to eat it. Just like pork (which eat anything, including feces). It was for their health. Immorality is a totally different aspect (although health care is involved too, avoiding STD’s and bastard children, single motherhood was not promoted then like today). It is in the same section of the Bible, great. In the same section of a history book we can find Oriental culture together with European culture. They are two totally different things yet they are together in the same section. You really do not have much of an argument by saying “they are in the same section”
Nice try but God was protecting them from the diseases that go along with immorality (which is a major problem in our modern society).
Jesus never came to make the Law invalid, He came to fulfill It. He agrees with it. He also condemned homosexuality and agreed with its punishment (whoever told you that the Law is invalid, obviously has not read the Words of Jesus carefully).
Plus, the New T. (under which Christians live) strongly condemns homosexuality. In fact, it is punished (not by physical death like in the Old T.) by eternal death (damnation). The New T. seems to be even more strongly against homosexuality than the Old T.
The USA was founded on Christian principles. Most of the founders had faith in God. The majority of American still consider themselves “Christian” (whether they live it or not, that is a different story). Christianity permeates our society. We disagree with murder, lying, stealing, etc. (just as the Bible teaches). People have the choice to follow what they want. People can believe a lie, if they want, that is each person’s individual choice. The act of marriage is open to every American citizen. The restriction is on “the whom/what you marry”. Saying that people in the USA do not have a right to marry is a lie. Everyone has the right to marry, the whom is the only limitation.
Wrong! I never said that. Homosexuality harms society as a whole. That is what I have written.
Okay then! I guess I missed that last part. So how exactly does it harm society on a whole? Because homosexuals are after the children? Actually, less than one percent of child molestation crimes are committed by homosexuals (source: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html *it’s a long article, but the statistic I’m quoting is there, about a quarter of the way down). Because they want to turn kids gay? No one except a few extremists like yourself believes that’s even possible. You can’t turn someone gay. Because they have a secret agenda to take over America? Just like Muslims, and atheists, and evolutionists, and whatever other group you can come up with to hate on. If everyone who you believe wants control of America actually got it, the government would fall apart. Muslim ideology is so similar to Christian (shocker, I know) that it would be just as bad for atheists under a Muslim regime as a strictly Christian regime. Why else might homosexuals be a threat to society? Becuase they want the right to marry someone they love, so that they can leave each other property, so they can have the same rights straight people get just for signing a paper in front of a judge? Marriage carries with it legal rights (check out this site if you don’t believe me: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/marriage-rights-benefits-30190.html). If you want to be an ass about it and say that marriage is a Christian institution, fine, that’s your right, but if that’s true then it shouldn’t carry legal rights. Since it does, it shouldn’t be any religion’s place to say who can and can’t marry whom.
Not agreeing with the homosexual lifestyle, and having evidence of homosexual propaganda in the public schools makes a person an extremist??? I do not understand your logic here.
There is no definite proof that people are born gay. Since the lifestyle is a choice, it is obvious that you can turn someone gay. I have spoken with ex gays and current gays and a large majority of them admitted to being introduced to the gay lifestyle by another homosexual or having had some sexual experience (molestation by a male) in their childhood.
Again, not agreeing with a lifestyle does not equal hate. You need to stop with the name calling. It only shows that you do not have a legit argument.
Bad under Christianity??? How is love your neighbor as yourself bad? Put your neighbor to death because he is not Muslim is far from love your neighbor as yourself. You try to compare apples to oranges again and once again, fail miserably.
It not that homosexuals want to marry someone whom they “love” it is the fact that they want to change a fundamental law for all of society (which effects me and everyone else). Again, you are trying to shift the focus. A homosexual has the same right as I do to marry. We are not limited in the right to marry, it is the object of our marriage (man with woman).
I apologize for calling you hateful. It was just an inference based on the arguments you’re presenting. I can accept that.
“Love thy neighbor as thyself” is a great concept. If Christians could remember that’s the most important law Jesus preached, that would be great. But take a look at Christian-based theocracies in history, specifically the regions once under the rule of the Catholic church. Before you go all, “But those countries still had kings/queens/whatever,” that doesn’t change the fact that the Pope had authority over the monarchs. They believed he had the power to save their souls, and that pretty much made every Catholic monarch of that era puppets, with the Pope calling the shots. And what happened? A period of nearly 1000 years where it was illegal to read the bible, where women were executed for researching herbal medicine, where any dissenting opinion was met with the likes of the Spanish Inquisition. Do some research on the Catholic reign (between the 5th and 15th centuries AD) and then tell me that a Christian theocracy is a good thing. My statement that a Christian-based government would be no better than a Muslim-based government was based on a general comparison in my mind of the aforementioned Catholic era to modern Muslim dictatorships. They don’t seem much different to me.
What fundamental law are they trying to change? Marriage? Because marriage is such a sacred institution that God ordained between one man and one woman, right? Take a second look at your Bible. Read Genesis chapter 4, where it says that Cain emigrated to Nod. Next verse, it mentions his wife. Where did she come from? Every minister I’ve asked says that she was his sister. Really sacred, hmm? It gets better. Check out 2 Samuel 11. David sees a woman bathing, and murders her husband so that he can marry her. Guess what? David was already married. I Samuel 18, he married Michal, Saul’s daughter. So, marriage is a sacred bond between- whom? A man and his sister? A man and his boss’s daughter and the widow of a man he murdered to free her up for himself? What about Solomon, who according to I Kings 11 had a harem of around 1000 women. THAT is what you’re trying to uphold? So it’s okay to murder someone because you’re in love with his/her spouse even though you’re already married, it’s okay to marry your sister, it’s okay to have 700 wives and 300 concubines, but it’s not okay for two men to get married? The church doesn’t even have to sanction it. It’s not about your religion, it’s about the legal aspect.
Either marriage is religious, or it’s legal. If it’s legal, religions can’t say who can marry whom. If it’s religious, governments can’t bestow rights on one couple but not another.
Finally, about gay being a choice or not: here’s an article that explains it better than I could: http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=28531
Let me ask you, did you choose to be straight? When? How do you know it was a choice and not just your natural inclination? I know I didn’t wake up one morning and say, “Hey, life would be better being single. I think I’ll stop being attracted to people.” It doesn’t work like that.
Please remember, just because people who call themselves “Christians” do evil things in the name of God, that does not mean that they are genuine Christian and it does not reflect who God is or what His teachings are.
Many people do many things in the name of “God” yet when they do evil (practice lawlessness) then they are not of God and He does not know them (recognize them)
I am not impressed with people who are “Christian” in name and not deed. In fact, neither is God (nor is Jesus). They both have plenty to say to religious people who were “faithful” in name but not deeds.
If you look at Christianity from the 1st Cent until Constantine, the spiritual aspect of Christianity prospered while they suffered greatly. After Constantine, the persecution was greatly reduced; the “church” prospered yet the spiritual side suffered. There was a great difference between the first 4 centuries and the next 12.
Gen. 1 and 2. God sets the standard for marriage, 1 man and 1 woman. During the Old T., the standard was still the same, even if there were those who did not obey God’s command. Plus, those who did not obey God and married more than one wife, suffered the consequences. In Genesis 4, Cain did marry his sister, which was not a sin because the Law had not yet been given. (Cain’s marriage was still one man and one woman)
Legally, a homosexual has the right to marry. He is just limited in the object of that marriage. If a male wants to marry a female, he can do it. If he wants to marry 2 females at the same time, he cannot.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I was asked when I chose to be straight. God made me male. I choose to be straight every single day out of obedience to Him.
Fine. It still comes back down to the whole question whether marriage is a legal or religious institution. As I’ve said before, I am absolutely 100% NOT for making churches recognize same sex marriage. For one, there are enough Christian ministers who are fine with it that would agree to marry a couple. BUT, if the church wants to influence the law, then that is a problem. The first amendment says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Meaning, Congress can’t prohibit any not-harmful-to-society religious activity, but it also means that Congress can’t favor one religion over another when it comes to writing laws, etc. It irks me when people focus on “freedom of religion,” when it clearly guarantees those who want it the freedom from religion. Except, of course, when the evil gays want to have equal rights.
And I’m done. I enjoy a meaningful debate as much as anyone. But this is starting to aggravate me, and so I need to walk away, because getting pissed at you would just be a waste of time. Neither of us is going to be the least bit successful at changing the other’s mind. I just hope that the people who actually make the laws in the future are more open-minded than you.
Freedom of religion gives you the right to avoid all religion if you desire. Again, homosexuals are protected under the law just like heterosexuals.
Getting upset in general is a waste of time. So is arguing on the side of evil, but that is another story.
Thanks for stopping by and sharing. I am beginning to notice that most pro homosexuals hang with their own kind when it comes to blogs and debates so I am glad that I could have an impact.
I am very open-minded toward good things that help people. I cannot be open-minded to dangerous stuff that destroys lives.
“That’s great – but what if the circumstances of your life, a hormonal imbalance, or a variety of other factors come into precisely the right alignment to cause you to doubt your attraction to women? What if you begin to find men to be more apt companions in your later life, and then discover that your attraction to men is not only intellectual or platonic?”
Are you implying that if somehow he became gay he should simply divorce his wife and marry a man? You clearly have no understanding of what love is, love is not sex. Love is something you have to work at and its not easy, its a commitment.
Not only “intellectual or platonic?” Is all sex is to you a form of recreation? Do you even care about the other person? If he loves his wife he will stay with here untill the day he dies and they will both sacrafice to make eachother happy. Thats what love is. Everone changes over time.
Murderers can claim that they have a hormonal imbalance, so does that mean that we accept them the way that they are, even if their hormonal imbalance sets them at a predisposition to murder people? What about pedophiles with a “hormonal imbalance”?
I have intellectual friendships with members of the same sex, we are called friends, not homosexuals. Based on the stats, homosexuals are doing more than having chats about poetry and literature (I think you get the point).
People should not divorce, that is what the Bible teaches, so I doubt that I have advised anyone to divorce. Being gay is a choice that leads to slavery. Once you give yourself over to this degrading passion, it enslaves you and then you cannot get out, until you are set free by true love, the death of Jesus Christ in your place on the cross and the resurrection from the dead. When you accept His true love, then He removes the bonds of sin (homosexuality) and you are free.
Sex was created by God and given to husband and wife for enjoyment and procreation. The Bible teaches that a man is to enjoy the wife of his youth (in the context of sex). There is no passage in the Bible that says that sex is only for procreation. There are many passages that teach that sex is for enjoyment between a husband and his wife.
“The Pope had authority over the monarchs. They believed he had the power to save their souls, and that pretty much made every Catholic monarch of that era puppets, with the Pope calling the shots. And what happened? A period of nearly 1000 years where it was illegal to read the bible, where women were executed for researching herbal medicine, where any dissenting opinion was met with the likes of the Spanish Inquisition”
I can’t stand ignorant people like you. The bible was not illegal to read, the bible was read to the people every time Mass was celebrated. The bible was not made available to the people because it took monks a lifetime to copy, they didn’t have the printing press or email back then genius.
As for the Pope controlling the monarchs well your assuming the monarchs weren’t morons. They had their own goals and if you understand history you will understand that often the monarchs only did as much as they were required to keep the faith with Rome, because Rome (the church) was the people, and the monarchs only concern was ruling the people.
Furthermore the Church never executed women for growing herbs, many Christians had important roles in the scientific revolution. Not the least of which is Francis Bacon who invented the Scientific Method.
Many Catholic thinkers were against the Inquisition. The Spanish Inquisition was not an act of the Church it was a heresy of the Church carried out by fanatics backed by the state.
I am not sure whom you are addressing with this comment. Could you be more specific and show where the ideas came from?
In spite of your tag-line, I’m not sure this blog is very encouraging to Christians. Much of what you’ve written on this page is very derisive. It seems you are more interested in denigrating people and declaring them to be inferior than you are with being genuinely Christ-like.
For instance, you repeatedly quote individuals and then make sweeping and negative generalizations about “these people.” One person makes a mean comment to you, and you use this as evidence that all homosexuals and their friends are aggressive. With any group of people (Christians, homosexuals, heterosexuals, etc.) there are those who are aggressive, and those who are compassionate. I fear you are in danger of becoming more the former than the latter, based on what I am reading from you here.
You are disparaging of those who employ “cheap tactics,” but then you casually liken your opponents–homosexuals–to Hitler. Such a device is not meaningful or fair, as another silly comparison illustrates:
“Hitler didn’t agree with homosexuality. Erik doesn’t agree with homosexuality. Erik is like Hitler. All Christians are like Hitler, for that matter.”
Statements of that sort are antagonistic and destructive. This is not the way of Christianity. (Not to mention, since you are concerned with logic and making reasonable arguments, I have to point out that likening homosexuals to the Nazis–the regime that persecuted and murdered many millions of people based on ethnicity, religion, sexuality, etc–is not going to bolster your own intellectual integrity.)
I guess what I am trying to say is that being a Christian is about being understanding and compassionate; it is not about passing judgment.
Why would a Biblical stance on moral issues not be encouraging to Christians?
Calling sin what it is, does not mean denigrating. Telling someone that sin is okay is degrading because it allows a person to deceive himself/herself thinking that all is well when in reality, lives (both innocent and guilty) are being destroyed.
If you knew my testimony then you would know that like Paul, I was once the chief of sinners. God is the One who changed me. I am not better than anyone. Only a person with a superficial reading of my posts would claim that I feel that I am better than others.
Let me give you the Biblical description of homosexuals. It is found in Genesis 19.
From this description we learn a lot about the mindset of the homosexual.
1) They are united in their evil.
2) The older ones have recruited the younger ones
3) They have infiltrated all of society
4) They are sexual perverts
5) They want to abuse others
6) They are very aggressive
7) They do not want anyone to call them out on their destructive actions
8 )They are violent when they do not get their way
9) They are insistent on their agenda and will not stop at anything, not even being stuck with blindness (or AIDS in today’s time)
This was the behavior of homosexuals (as a whole) back then and it is the same today.
Homosexuals use many of the same tactics that Hitler used (ex. aggressive propaganda). Plus Hitler and homosexuals were very close friends Study Nazi history a little better. BTW, Hitler did agree with homosexuality.
How can you be compassionate and not tell people that their lifestyle will ruin their lives? That is the opposite of compassion.
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